Seattle Forumers Prop 1 Tally

[Black Box]

I'm voting YES!

[UrbanBen]

Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36

- Will not help other/more important troublesome Snohomish County roads

Like what? What's more important than what we're funding?

- Too long to extend light rail to Lynnwood

So accelerate it like Dallas and SLC did.

- Even longer/no possibility of light rail to Everett in my lifetime

Longer than... not funding ST2? Are you for real?

- Region-wide road projects will not help

That's bull and you know it. Congestion will get worse much faster without these projects. Did you check out that graph of travel times with and without RTID in the P-I? Come on.

- Region-wide light rail too little, too long
- Raises taxes (especially car-tabs)
- Costs too much

These are crazy when taken together. So... it doesn't do enough, but it costs too much? And what would you be saying if it did everything you wanted it to do? You would FLIP at the cost increases.

- Ignores other region-wide bottlenecks

Like...?

Also, have you noticed the many Roads and Transit ballots being sent via mail? Well, I think Sound Transit and everyone else knows that Proposition 1 will fail, and they're spending however much amount of money to (unsuccessfully) try to convince voters to vote yes (doubt that will happen).

I've noticed mailers required by the state of Washington. They're not ballots.

[Tcmetro]

Why would vote NO on Prop. 1? It will only take longer to get LRT to Snohomish County by voting No.

[NW Mike]

Everyone I think taiwanesedrummer36 really is going to vote Yes. He know the truth, He is just wanting a good argument on the forum. Stir up some good discussions. Well it worked. We all basically want the same thing, Light Rail and better roads.

[SeattleRising]

Voted no.

184 new miles of roads, only 16% are HOV. That's all money down the drain.


I suspect a lot of the support on this board comes from people who love to see anything built. Buildings, towers, road, light rail, bridges, etc etc. Build for building's sake! :P

[Black Box]

^That's not my reason.

[BoulderGrad]

Not mine either...

[mhays]

Nor mine.

[UrbanBen]

Originally Posted by SeattleRising

Voted no.

184 new miles of roads, only 16% are HOV. That's all money down the drain.


I suspect a lot of the support on this board comes from people who love to see anything built. Buildings, towers, road, light rail, bridges, etc etc. Build for building's sake! :P

Oh, good grief. And if it fails, you'll get the roads next year, but the rail won't be back for twenty.

Anyway, it's 184 new miles of *lanes* - and actually, I think it's less than that. Oh, and a lot of them aren't even fully funded, and a lot of them include pedestrian and bicycle facilities, and things like the cross-base highway won't even induce sprawl (you can't build sprawl in the base).

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Originally Posted by NW Mike

Everyone I think taiwanesedrummer36 really is going to vote Yes. He know the truth, He is just wanting a good argument on the forum. Stir up some good discussions. Well it worked. We all basically want the same thing, Light Rail and better roads.

You don't know what the [expletive] I think. I am 100% certain that come Election Day, I will vote "NO". I am completely aware of the truth. Do you think improvements to the Mercer Mess will really help? Do you think adding a bus-only direct access ramp at Industrial Way will help? Do you think SR 509 will help improve congestion when we already have a good highway like SR 599? Do you think any of these "ME" projects will help the entire region? Do you know how much more it'll cost when people start forming massive protests to cancel these projects (remember the '70s)? Do you know how much it will cost?!

No, they won't. Widening a pile of roads through current/future dense urban areas will not improve our region for the future.

Credibility also plays a role in this issue. Every government agency has bad management, REALLY bad management. In 1996, we were promised in Sound Move a bunch of transit projects and HOV lanes in a ten-year period. How many years has it been now? Yes, it's only been 11 years, but think about the delays. The Sounder North line (Seattle-Everett) was delayed so much (blame ST and BNSF), light rail was delayed and shortened, several bus projects have yet to be constructed/are delayed, project costs have risen (partly due to ST), and so much more. Back in the late 1990s, I was so excited to hear that so many transportation options would be available to me in only a couple of years. Well, that time kept getting stretched and stretched until I realized, there's no hope for us unless we think and plan realistically.

Well you know what I want?! I want efficient, cheap, and far-reaching light rail (that will be completed by the promised date UNDER budget), and I want REFURBISHED roads, not NEW roads. If, God forbid, that someone changes my ballot to "YES", may GOD strike me down this instant.

Also, NW Mike, I think you shouldn't be talking unitl you improve your absolutely horrendous English grammar. Geez, are you still in preschool?

[CrazyAboutCities]

I sent my ballot with my YES on it few days ago. I'm done! I have a feeling it will pass since I know way too many people are voting yes on it too.

[taiwanesedrummer36]

[QUOTE=UrbanBen;16115156]Like what? What's more important than what we're funding?

So accelerate it like Dallas and SLC did.

"So accerlerate it like Dallas and SLC did." Can you predict that such a vote will happen?

[QUOTE]Longer than... not funding ST2? Are you for real?[QUOTE]
Yes, I am completely real. If R&T fails, i'm sure local agencies will step up and implement their own projects for improving their city's/county's transportation system, like Community Transit is doing.

That's bull and you know it. Congestion will get worse much faster without these projects. Did you check out that graph of travel times with and without RTID in the P-I? Come on.

Is that graph REALLY accurate? I don't think I should even waste my time to study it. If we do nothing but add more gas taxes and transit, people will stop driving and take transit (remember the August I-5 construction?).

These are crazy when taken together. So... it doesn't do enough, but it costs too much? And what would you be saying if it did everything you wanted it to do? You would FLIP at the cost increases.

That doesn't make sense. Even if Prop 1 does get approved, costs will still increase anyway. But we need something that states that even if costs do increase, there is some leverage that won't significantly affect taxpayers. Also, we think of simple improvements to our transportation system, but locals affected by a project will demand for outrageous changes that will raise costs for us. I mean look at SR 520. We would have stuck with the original plan, but Montlake insisted on crazy ideas (except for the Pacific Interchange (which will cost more). And the station designs: why not build simple, boring stations now and build more elaborate ones later? I don't think that's included in the current proposal. Basically, I am disgusted by the "money" part.

Like...?

Marysville projects should be funded by developers and the Tulalips completely. They're the ones that caused the skyrocketing traffic there.

There's nothing wrong with the 41st Street bridge. It's just small and old, but still 100% functional.

US 2 and SR 9 are the state's problem, not ours. Who told them not to fix those highways earlier? I blame the Democrats in Olympia (allusion to vote for Republican Dino Rossi in 2008)

How much would it cost just to add an arterial on 35th-39th avenues? Not that much to put on our shoulders.

What happened to federal funding? If SR 522 is the nation's most dangerous highway, I think that requires federal attention.

Mercer Mess: a complete waste of money to give a gift to selfish crybaby Paul Allen.

The South Park Bridge is a complete waste. King County and Seattle should pay for it TOGETHER.

SR 509 extension will just add traffic and contribute to global warming.

I've noticed mailers required by the state of Washington. They're not ballots.

My mistake; I meant to say "phamplets", not "ballots".

Originally Posted by NW Mike

Everyone I think taiwanesedrummer36 really is going to vote Yes. He know the truth, He is just wanting a good argument on the forum. Stir up some good discussions. Well it worked. We all basically want the same thing, Light Rail and better roads.

Man, I still can't get over what you said. You sir are the dumbest person in the world.

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities

I sent my ballot with my YES on it few days ago. I'm done! I have a feeling it will pass since I know way too many people are voting yes on it too.

If so many people are voting "YES", then why is half the region and many politicians and media agencies voting "NO"? You must have drank too much to have such a crazy dream.

[CrazyAboutCities]

Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36

If so many people are voting "YES", then why is half the region and many politicians and media agencies voting "NO"? You must have drank too much to have such a crazy dream.

Half of the region? No one knows exactly the result. We usually find out the result by after election day. Many politicians support it too. Ours governor Geogire supports it too. Senator Ed Murray supports it too. Mayor Nickel support it too. Most of city council members support it too. That is a lot of politicans supporting it.

Let's wait and see the result first before you jump the gun on us.

[UrbanBen]

Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36

If so many people are voting "YES", then why is half the region and many politicians and media agencies voting "NO"? You must have drank too much to have such a crazy dream.

Well, Ron Sims is voting no because it will make much of his little transit empire dependent upon Sound Transit.

The Seattle Times Editorial Board is voting no because Jim Vesely and Frank Blethen drive SOV from Mercer Island, and would lose their free access to the express lanes. That's also where Judy Clibborn's opposition comes from.

The Stranger and Sierra Club are simply opposed to ANY ROADS ANYWHERE. They won't really fight the legislature's funding of these same roads next year, but that's what they're opposing.

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities

Half of the region? No one knows exactly the result. We usually find out the result by after election day. Many politicians support it too. Ours governor Geogire supports it too. Senator Ed Murray supports it too. Mayor Nickel support it too. Most of city council members support it too. That is a lot of politicans supporting it.

Let's wait and see the result first before you jump the gun on us.

You'd better control your feeling from jumping the gun.

Nick Licata is "NO", Kemper Freeman is "NO", plenty of politicians are/will vote "NO" come Election Day. And don't forget, Snohomish County was pissed off because of not enough money being invested to Sound Transit. Although they eventually "fixed" that problem and queers like Everett mayor Ray Stephanson and S.C. Executive Aaron Reardon are voting "yes", I am 90% positive that people in Snohomish County (mainly Everett) are still pissed off at the results and the cowardance of the mayor and county executive, and will vote "NO".

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Originally Posted by UrbanBen

Well, Ron Sims is voting no because it will make much of his little transit empire dependent upon Sound Transit.

The Seattle Times Editorial Board is voting no because Jim Vesely and Frank Blethen drive SOV from Mercer Island, and would lose their free access to the express lanes. That's also where Judy Clibborn's opposition comes from.

The Stranger and Sierra Club are simply opposed to ANY ROADS ANYWHERE. They won't really fight the legislature's funding of these same roads next year, but that's what they're opposing.

There are plenty of other people that aren't as prominent as the one's listed above that are voting "NO".

[CrazyAboutCities]

Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36

You'd better control your feeling from jumping the gun.

Feeling? You're speaking of yourself.

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities

I sent my ballot with my YES on it few days ago. I'm done! I have a feeling it will pass since I know way too many people are voting yes on it too.

Hey, what's that?!

[CrazyAboutCities]

Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36

Hey, what's that?!

You misunderstood my post. That is different type of feeling. I am talking about I have a feeling (gut) that will pass since I know a lot of people are supporting it. That is not emotion involved. You're the one who have emotions involved with this issue.