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Old December 10th, 2007, 12:24 AM   #81
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i like it
the inside is IMO better than the outside
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Old December 10th, 2007, 01:25 AM   #82
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First caryatid to New Acropolis Museum

The transfer of the first of five caryatids from the old Acropolis museum to the New Acropolis Museum in Makrygianni began on Saturday at 11:00 in the morning, using the three-crane relay system set up to carry the priceless antiquities down the hill via the Theatre of Dionysus.

The caryatid - a sculpted female form that serves as an architectural support for entablature in the place of a pillar - will be placed on the first level of the new museum in an internal "porch" that visitors will see when they first climb up the grand stair at the entrance. There were originally six caryatids on the Athens Acropolis that supported the porch of the Erechtheion Temple, where they have now been replaced by replicas. The best preserved of the six statues was taken by Lord Elgin in the 19th century and is now held at the British Museum, while the remaining five originals have been on display at the Acropolis Museum.
Here a nice photo of the replicas representing the authentic on Erechtheion Temple
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Old December 10th, 2007, 08:10 PM   #83
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Good to see your intense preoccupation with my statements, Skyduster. You're probably right, I was too emotional about it, but: I was expressing my subjective estimation on the Museum, so I don't understand the agitated reactions of you and Ellis. Whether you may have read it or not, I'm just curious - when did I include anything which compares your situation to Germany? Everything I was talking about, had been my experiences and opinions.

And I've visited Athens after the Olympic games in autumn 2005, so the memories are quite fresh - and you can tell me the city made a 360-roundabout since then. Of course, every city's changing 'bout some time (would be horrible if not), but that doesn't change my view on the museum, so what are you talking about? I actually think my expressions had been quite smooth, seemly you guys are some sorta mimosas. If it's just because I used the metaphoric term 'cancer' for its appearance, I'm sorry. But that ain't rude or something, come on. And by the by, it's not that I hate Athens, it actually might be worth a visit to see some great Ancient structures, but to me it wasn't worthwile (that may be also due to the fact, that it was quite cloudy and even raining some days). Considering the fact that Athens hadn't seen a major war since some hundred years, it was sadly pretty blemished by modernists.

By the way: I definetly don't soar my country above any else. If there's something crappy build in Germany, I'll say: "This is crap!" And possibly explain why I think so. I'm not that patriotic this way. But I can't stand to disguise myself and act as if everything's great up here. I don't expect others to be like that, but I think it's somehow dishonest to yourself if you find anything great what your own country does, isn't it? Hopefully you'll don't finish me off for stating that.

And why should I try to enlighten you? Of course it's evident to me that most of you Greeks know about the rather bad situation. But I was asked to concretize my opinion, so I did. Nothing wrong with that matter. If you don't like my way to express it, you should say it that way. But please don't affirm that I'd be trying to 'enlighten' you or something, that's ridiculous.

Probably the museum respects the archeological site and achieves the requirements. But does this make it proper architecture? Well, you're also not that cheered by it and I agree on most of your points. Some people don't seem to understand mine thou. Because they wanna hear everybody saying: "Uuuh, ooh, aah! Fantastic museum, beautiful! 10/10!!!1" That's like it seems to me. If we're basing discussions on such a level, a forum is mindless. Let's go to chat then. That apparently might fulfill the talking requirements of many people here on SSC.

Before I forget about it: In the end this discussion was just based on subjective arguments by me. I didn't and still don't want to insult anyone with that, otherwise I'm sorry - I'm always rather direct. But let's don't forget about what a forum like this use to offer: A platform to discuss urban matters, opinions, news, buildings, whatever. Why should we haver and waste our time? If we don't express our positions directly, we just talk at cross-purposes and don't might reduce any matter to a common denominator. I hope you've got to be appreciative of my concerns. If not, go and snivel.
All I've gotta say now: Let's get back to some peace here and have an irenic libation
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Old December 10th, 2007, 09:57 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Good to see your intense preoccupation with my statements, Skyduster. You're probably right, I was too emotional about it, but: I was expressing my subjective estimation on the Museum, so I don't understand the agitated reactions of you and Ellis. Whether you may have read it or not, I'm just curious - when did I include anything which compares your situation to Germany? Everything I was talking about, had been my experiences and opinions.

And I've visited Athens after the Olympic games in autumn 2005, so the memories are quite fresh - and you can tell me the city made a 360-roundabout since then. Of course, every city's changing 'bout some time (would be horrible if not), but that doesn't change my view on the museum, so what are you talking about? I actually think my expressions had been quite smooth, seemly you guys are some sorta mimosas. If it's just because I used the metaphoric term 'cancer' for its appearance, I'm sorry. But that ain't rude or something, come on. And by the by, it's not that I hate Athens, it actually might be worth a visit to see some great Ancient structures, but to me it wasn't worthwile (that may be also due to the fact, that it was quite cloudy and even raining some days). Considering the fact that Athens hadn't seen a major war since some hundred years, it was sadly pretty blemished by modernists.

By the way: I definetly don't soar my country above any else. If there's something crappy build in Germany, I'll say: "This is crap!" And possibly explain why I think so. I'm not that patriotic this way. But I can't stand to disguise myself and act as if everything's great up here. I don't expect others to be like that, but I think it's somehow dishonest to yourself if you find anything great what your own country does, isn't it? Hopefully you'll don't finish me off for stating that.

And why should I try to enlighten you? Of course it's evident to me that most of you Greeks know about the rather bad situation. But I was asked to concretize my opinion, so I did. Nothing wrong with that matter. If you don't like my way to express it, you should say it that way. But please don't affirm that I'd be trying to 'enlighten' you or something, that's ridiculous.

Probably the museum respects the archeological site and achieves the requirements. But does this make it proper architecture? Well, you're also not that cheered by it and I agree on most of your points. Some people don't seem to understand mine thou. Because they wanna hear everybody saying: "Uuuh, ooh, aah! Fantastic museum, beautiful! 10/10!!!1" That's like it seems to me. If we're basing discussions on such a level, a forum is mindless. Let's go to chat then. That apparently might fulfill the talking requirements of many people here on SSC.

Before I forget about it: In the end this discussion was just based on subjective arguments by me. I didn't and still don't want to insult anyone with that, otherwise I'm sorry - I'm always rather direct. But let's don't forget about what a forum like this use to offer: A platform to discuss urban matters, opinions, news, buildings, whatever. Why should we haver and waste our time? If we don't express our positions directly, we just talk at cross-purposes and don't might reduce any matter to a common denominator. I hope you've got to be appreciative of my concerns. If not, go and snivel.
All I've gotta say now: Let's get back to some peace here and have an irenic libation
Athens city is definetely a must destination that can suprise a traveller....I use to participate to the travel forums and most of people have memorable stay there.....the beach coast of the city ,the longest in Europe,the amazing climate ,the importance of its monuments,the hundrets of the museums,the 24 hours lively situations,the unstop nightlife and the vivid character of the city,the thousands of cosy cafes and luxurious restaurants and local taverns,plus its amazing nature surounding of sea and mountains doesnt makes Athens,a horrible place as you want to say at all....your critisism insult the city and its people,I wills second skyduster and i will say that i tottaly agree.....that you are minimize the city profile..in a negative and unrespectufull way........
you have an epocritic way of acting in the forums....by saying i dont hate Athens.....but when you insult a place you dont have to hate .....I wouldnt continue this if i havent experience of your previous reactions and bad sense.....if you participate in the forums to take some attention and causing battle threads....stay on your local ones...otherwise....ask for some help...of how we can use some words....i would expect from a german to think twice the way of expressing opinions...but .....you broke the tradition on this....
Building a classical architecture building would have been a way to comparison the museum to the Parthenon......THIS IS WRONG.....!!!!!For the architecture and wrong of presentation antiquities......you can build an example of classic architecture next to the perfection of this type of architecture.....you put it in comparison....
there are not many things to see!!!!
yes...there are little.........
1/Acropolis monuments
2/lycabetous hill
3/National archelogical museum
4/Benaki museum
5/Byzantine museum
6/Cycladic museum
7/Archeological pedestrians
8/Area of the Olympic venues and stadiums
9/Athens beaches-Vouliagmeni-Faliro-Glyfada-Barkiza
10/Plaka area and its amazing architecture
11/Kolonaki-ermou-shopping activities
12/Athenian planetarium(erd biggest in the wrold)
13/Floisvos marine
14/Ancient agora
15/Cape Sounion
16/Byzantine churhces(the oldest churches of Christianism)
17/Syntagma sqaure-Chaning of the guards
18/National gardens
19/Panepistimiou street-National library-Academy of Athens-Old university
20/Hellenic world foundation-virtual reality historic programs
21/Temple of Olympian Zeus
22/Panathinaiko stadiumfirst stadium of the Olympic games)
23/National gallery of Art
24/The jewish museum
25/Central Varvakios market
26/Islamic museum
27/Gazi Technopolis
28/Tower of the Winds
29/Numismatic Museum
30/The Monastery of Daphni
...................................................................................................................................and these are some musts......next time i will put hundrets more.....this is really really litle.....lool
If you have been to Athens and you can not spell the Olympic to Olympia.....
Sorry but......drink the beer yourself.....
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Old December 10th, 2007, 10:43 PM   #85
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Olympia is how it's spelled in German, I didn't think about the English counterpart. Nevermind.

Sorry, but all you're doing here is to stay in your pigheaded view how I'd insult anything. And I can insure you that I thought twice about what I wrote. As I said, it seems you can't accept opinions that differ from yours. I really respect that you love the Greek capital and use to defend it, and I partly agree with you. All I've said is that my expectations to the city had been way higher, in addition the weather sucked and someone pilfered my camera. Maybe that influenced the rather bad impression of the travel down there. Maybe I'm going to visit it again in some years and take a personal note on the Acropolis Museum myself. It might be not that bad, whatsoever. I've just judged by some pictures and subscriptions. But please let me decide myself what I prefer and what not - you've also been not that nice at all, with saying I'd have to update my taste and someone have to wake me up or whatever. Again, this is all about personal taste, you don't have to try to bring in 'facts' or to tell me it's a tourist top destination, that's obvious to me. That has nothing to do with my concernings about the whole matter, nevertheless.

Last try: Let's go off the air with this endless discussion. We differ on our agendas and it doesn't make sense to perpetuate this crosstalk.

But I hope we can agree on one thing: The Ancient heritage in and around Athens is one of the greatest things which remained on our beautiful mother earth - Let's keep these treasuries respectfully as long as it is possible!
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Old December 11th, 2007, 01:58 AM   #86
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Ok...Although sometimes you insult without realize it and you seem to me unresearch of some things and making easy-fast-first impresion critisize.....(I dont think that Athens needs a defender the last decades)....
I will drink a beer with you...cause at last you know to become gentleman..while sometimes you destroy this profile....
cheers and dont be german on drinking part please cause
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Old December 11th, 2007, 06:01 AM   #87
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erbsenzaehler,

Look, maybe you come across to people in a way that you don't realize. Both me and ELLIN interpreted your attitude as a bit patronizing and pompous. Maybe we're just being sensitive? I don't know. It just gets old when -every now and then- we get someone with a patronizing attitude, explaining down to us everything that's wrong with Athens, as if we are too ignorant to see it ourselves. You came across as a bit patronizing, and you've underestimated what Greeks know about their capital city, about its weaknesses, and how it compares to other European cities. You're not talking to the rural conservative Greek society of 1957. You're talking to the well-educated and relatively well-traveled Greek society of 2007. And I think that sometimes, poeple forget that.

If you ever mingle with Greek people, you'll notice that most Greeks and Athenians are very cynical and frustrated because we have been to Hamburg and Paris and Madrid and London and Prague, and we know how lovely these cities are, and why can't Athens be like that too. Myself, my family moved around growing up, as you can see under my "location". It doesn't cost much to travel within Europe nowadays, and an Athenian or a Thessalonian can hop on a plane and visit Munich in just over 2 hours. And there's also television, magazines, and the internet, and 17 million tourists that visit Greece every year, and don't forget returning expats. We are not some isolated people living in a remote location never interacting with the outside world. Sorry if I'm going off on a bit of soap-box speech, but sometimes, I get that from people.

I never said -nor will I say- that Athens has made a "360-roundabout". And no one in Athens or Greece has ever said this. There remains a lot of work to be done. However, much has changed, and the city is constantly improving. No the city hasn't changed tenfold since you visited in 2005, however Athens is a little better in 2007 than it was in 2005. And it was a little better in 2005 than it was in 2003. And it'll be a little better in 2009 than it was in 2007.

Change is gradual, we can't bulldoze the city overnight. And we also need to allocate time and funds to schools, hospitals, motorways, and other much-needed projects. As I said, keep visiting every year and every decade, and you'll notice the city's gradual -but noticeable- changes.

As for your opinions on the Acropolis Museum: I don't disagree with you. However, you did bring up the city of Athens itself, opening that up to discussion. You see, we all agree that the modernists damaged the city. No one denies this. And my point was that: you are not telling us anything we don't already know.

And allow me to correct you on history: the last war Athens experienced was not 100 years ago. It was the Greek civil war 1947-1949 which followed the Second World War (when Greece was occupied by axis powers in 1941). In both these wars, Athens (and other Greek cities) were subject to considerable damage.

It's not your opinions that rubbed me the wrong way. As I already said, I don't disagree with you much. It's the way you were expressing your opnions. By "enlightening" us. I'm not demanding that people withhold their opinions, and praise an architctural or urban planning development they didn't like. By all means, this is a forum to discuss these topics, and we need to open and expressive.

I hope we can now understand each other.

Last edited by skyduster; December 11th, 2007 at 06:47 AM.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 12:46 PM   #88
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Having visited several German-speaking cities, I can understand erbsenzaehler’s way of thinking.

Compared to them Athens looks like the epitome of urban ugliness, just one step better than Cairo.

As for the museum, IMO it is even uglier than the surrounding apartment buildings.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 04:47 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyathenian View Post
Having visited several German-speaking cities, I can understand erbsenzaehler’s way of thinking.

Compared to them Athens looks like the epitome of urban ugliness, just one step better than Cairo.

As for the museum, IMO it is even uglier than the surrounding apartment buildings.
IMO it is even uglier than the surrounding apartment buildings.......
Ok....OKKKKKKK!!!
Happy that you makes us the favour to stay with us and see only bad parts of a city and not good ones....sorry but the Barok has passed ,if the modern is a curse and IMO is the ungliest building....nastyathenian....wish you a better stay in the future somewhere else....
Enas ragias eisai...pou prosvalei tin idia tou tin xora....
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Old December 11th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #90
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This is the British Museum:



The British can claim that its design is closer to the Acropolis, therefore it is more suitable to host the Parthenon marbles.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 12:20 AM   #91
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If you believe that this room......is better to preserve the Parthenon marbles

than this......



with full attic light interiors and views of the monuments...i would suggest to ask the antiquities and I warn you that the captured in London Caryatid is professional in boxing

Lets see the museum finish....
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Old December 12th, 2007, 01:05 AM   #92
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ellin, why are you getting insulted? These are people's opinions, they don't like the museum....not everybody will like it live with it.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 02:09 AM   #93
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Quote:
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ellin, why are you getting insulted? These are people's opinions, they don't like the museum....not everybody will like it live with it.
Varin karin Im going rest really good tonight and relax as allways after a hard work....dont be bothered...
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Old December 12th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyathenian View Post
This is the British Museum:



The British can claim that its design is closer to the Acropolis, therefore it is more suitable to host the Parthenon marbles.
Acropolis Museum has much more to do in design terms with the acropolis. British Museum has no relation to it at all. Its columns are not even the same order. These are Ionic.

The Acropolis Museum was built with same dimensions as the Parthenon which makes it closer related.
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Old December 16th, 2007, 08:54 PM   #95
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The south facade:


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Old December 19th, 2007, 01:11 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyathenian View Post
This is the British Museum:



The British can claim that its design is closer to the Acropolis, therefore it is more suitable to host the Parthenon marbles.

This is the Pergamon Museum in Berlin.It has many ancient pieces from Pergamon and Miletus.












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Old December 19th, 2007, 04:13 PM   #97
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Acropolis Museum is an amazing building. Would love to have something similar in Central London
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Old December 19th, 2007, 04:15 PM   #98
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Quote:
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Enas ragias eisai...pou prosvalei tin idia tou tin xora....
Well said.
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Old December 20th, 2007, 12:56 AM   #99
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Quote:
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Acropolis Museum is an amazing building. Would love to have something similar in Central London
You have the Parthenon marbels dear in central London..dont take from us now the New Acropolis museum too
by the way central London make a serious work on architecture too....
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 11:00 PM   #100
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Well I happen to love the new museum! It's very beautiful and spacious inside, the view seems amazing and would be a great backdrop to view great ancient relics of the Greeks, and I'd personally love to visit it. Museums don't have to have 50 columns to house amazing relics of the past so I am quite sure this building will turn out really nice, especially since it's so near to the amazing Acropolis. As an Australian, I look forward to visiting Athens - especially because in my novels, one of the protagonists can't stop speaking about his dream to visit Athens. It makes me want to do the same! Good luck to Athens and hopefully everything works out well!
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