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Old October 4th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #441
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevlargeist View Post
That would be logical, considering all the other bilingual countries have bilingual thread titles.
Italy is many-lingual (Italian, German, Friulian, Slovenian, Sardinian, Catalan, Croatian, Albanian, Occitan, French, Ladin, Mocheno, Cimbrian, Griko...) but no need to put all of them into the title.
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Old October 14th, 2013, 09:59 PM   #442
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Italy has only one national language. Finland is officially bilingual. Swedish has the same status as Finish.
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Old October 16th, 2013, 02:55 PM   #443
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Vt. 3 near Kivistö, just north of Helsinki. This is part of the Ring Rail Line construction that will connect the airport.

image hosted on flickr

Vt3 ja Kivistön asema by Liikennevirasto, on Flickr
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:58 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Vt. 3 near Kivistö, just north of Helsinki. This is part of the Ring Rail Line construction that will connect the airport.

image hosted on flickr

Vt3 ja Kivistön asema by Liikennevirasto, on Flickr
The photo was taken only a few days after the temporary diversion chicanes were removed. They were in place more than a year to build three underpasses: one for the railway, and two for the new roads. The Friday afternoon traffic in August can be examined in this video:



The east service area will be upgraded to a bus terminal, and there will be a new shopping center nearby.

BTW, the area lies next to the abandoned Keimola Circuit. The ruins of the circuit is still visible on the map (emphasized by blue) and air photos even if the tarmac has been removed, and the trees growing:



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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:57 PM   #445
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Stupid how they divided also this project in two, it was originally meant to widen the road to 2x3-2x4 to Klaukkala.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:17 PM   #446
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Stupid how they divided also this project in two, it was originally meant to widen the road to 2x3-2x4 to Klaukkala.
2x8 would have been better.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 09:42 AM   #447
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^That means new walls etc will have to be demolished in a few years, or huge traffic problems with nothing being done as usual when the new Kivistö regional center gets built.

Also, recently Greens have taken over the Helsinki city planning bureau, and they are planning to demolish already congested motorways with AADT 50 000-100 000 into "boulevards"! Wether this gets realized or not, it is putting on hold all road plans in Helsinki city property. Many projects have already been moved from this decade to "2025-2045", when I guess the bureau will be completely controlled by Greens - this makes our city so stupidly different compared to other Nordic cities. Of course, commies have never cared about money, and living in the center they care just about bike lanes. Nobody have asked about this citizens from eastern and northern Helsinki, Espoo, or Vantaa, which all together are just one city. I doubt folks want to wake up at 5 AM to get to work... Meanwhile, vast areas lack any rail infrastructure.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 11:06 AM   #448
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Can u believe it? The stretch from Jyväskylä to Jämsä (56 Kms) ranges AADT from 10 000 to 26 000 and is completely 1+1-laned with mostly at-level intersections with every single forest path - and what are they planning? A 2 Km section of motorway, 10 Kms of 2+1 and the rest 1+1 with some 2+1-sections!! It's one of the main routes of the country (NR 9 and E63).
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Old November 14th, 2013, 02:47 PM   #449
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RV, please refer to your sources when you post AADT figures.

The AADT of the 1+1 stretch between Jämsä and Jyväskylä in 2012 was 6700 to 16200 according to the traffic map of the Finnish Road Authority

Of this, only 2 kms is AADT 16200, obviously where the motorway is planned. The rest is 6700 to 11700. So, what's the problem?

Please, give us a break.
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Old December 5th, 2013, 08:29 AM   #450
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Snow Closes Road 21/E8

Yesterday, Dec 4, the road 21/E8 in the northwest corner of Finland was closed for a few hours because of excessive snow. This was an exceptional event, because there is snow cleaning capacity enough to keep the public roads always open. The depth of the snow in the region on Kilpisjärvi was 117 centimeters yesterday. This is much more than typically in the early December.


Weather camera at 06:30 in the morning


Weather camera at the noontime. (Next sunrise January 11th at 12:49)
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Old December 5th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #451
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Not too many roads in that area.

A trip between the centra of Enontekiö and Storfjord municipalities (neighbours!) is normally 242 km. With Kilpisjärvi closed, you can take the next crossing point in the west or east to make it 585 km or 518 km respectively. (And the one in the west, Bjørnfjell, is closed frequently in the winter - with Kilpisjärvi it's actually rare.)
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Old December 5th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Not too many roads in that area.

A trip between the centra of Enontekiö and Storfjord municipalities (neighbours!) is normally 242 km. With Kilpisjärvi closed, you can take the next crossing point in the west or east to make it 585 km or 518 km respectively. (And the one in the west, Bjørnfjell, is closed frequently in the winter - with Kilpisjärvi it's actually rare.)
In that sort of a weather, the nearby mountain roads will most probably be closed, too. The best option is to take a break and wait for the road getting opened.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 02:48 PM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tayano View Post
RV, please refer to your sources when you post AADT figures.

The AADT of the 1+1 stretch between Jämsä and Jyväskylä in 2012 was 6700 to 16200 according to the traffic map of the Finnish Road Authority

Of this, only 2 kms is AADT 16200, obviously where the motorway is planned. The rest is 6700 to 11700. So, what's the problem?

Please, give us a break.
The AADT is much higher. For example, according to Helsinki City Kehä I AADT is at the busiest stretch 113 000, when Liikennevirasto gives it only 84 000. My source is the plan itself and it texts.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 03:30 PM   #454
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Is that figure the current AADT or projected future AADT?
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Old December 7th, 2013, 10:12 AM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Is that figure the current AADT or projected future AADT?
RV might be referring to images like this:



It is contained in a long-term prestudy spanning until 2040 compiled by the regional road agency and the local municipalities, both not being a part of the money-owning decision making pipeline. There are no further plans to upgrade this road section.

The black figures reflect the current AADT. The highest figure 20700 (not 26000 as RV tells) applies to sections within the city limits if Jyväskylä where there already is a motorway or a 2+2 road. Across the whole section in question, the AADT varies from 5700 to 16200 (not from 10000 to 26000). The percentages show the share of the heavy vehicles. The red figures show the projected AADT in the year 2040.

That prestudy does not suggest constructing a motorway across the whole section. Instead, it suggest taking a three-wave development action to build a motorway until Muurame (the green double line), a 2+2 road until Korpilahti (the red double line), and a 2+1 road for the rest. Two short 2+1 sections already exist.

The prestudy introduces a totally new concept of a "mini interchange" to separate the local traffic:



The road section was built in 1950's and it is part of an important east-west transport corridor. However, it lost a lot of its importance in mid-1990's, when the main north-south corridor 4/E75 was moved to the east side of the lake Päijänne. The section is far from reaching the country-wide TOP20 list of traffic investments (roads, railways, waterways) receiving the most money and priority.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 01:09 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV View Post
The AADT is much higher. For example, according to Helsinki City Kehä I AADT is at the busiest stretch 113 000, when Liikennevirasto gives it only 84 000. My source is the plan itself and it texts.
Helsinki City does not present its figures in AADT (Annual Average Daily Traffic), but in ADT (Average Daily Traffic) from Monday to Friday. That's why its figures are higher that those of Liikennevirasto.

Liikennevirasto uses AADT, which counts in all the 365 days of the year, including weekends.

Here's the newest Helsinki City traffic map, which shows the Monday-Friday ADT for the busiest stretch of Kehä I as 108 900 in 2012. It is also noted in the explanatory text that the figures are from September, when the traffic volumes are ca. 6% higher than the yearly average.

This is the traffic map of Liikennevirasto for the whole Finland in 2012 (Helsinki area separately zoomed in) giving the same stretch of Kehä I AADT of 90 622. AADT is the international standard that all figures and their comparisons on this forum are based on.

Last edited by tayano; December 9th, 2013 at 01:14 PM.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #457
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I prefer workday traffic volumes.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 04:50 PM   #458
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I also think that workday ADT figures give a more realistic picture of the traffic volumes, especially on urban highways such as Kehä I.

On the other hand, on many rural highways in Finland, traffic volumes tend to be higher on weekends, especially in the summertime.

National Highway 9 can be considered urban from Jyväskylä to Muurame (Muurame is a satellite town of Jyväskylä), possibly even to Korpilahti. Further to Jämsä it is quite clearly rural.

My point is, since detailed ADT figures are very rarely available or reliable, it is better stick with AADT figures, which are quite generally available and comparable.
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Old December 11th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #459
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http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/a130575637...5&ref=fb-share

Helsinki City Planning Office has been overtaken by the most radical members of the "green-thinking-group". Now they plan to convert all the motorways inside Kehä I into "boulevards" (streets with traffic lights, tramways and for example converting E75 from 4+4 to 2+2).

Nice pics with few cars, when in the actual day these stretches carry 50 000-100 000 ADT... People returning from work will be pleased to stop every 100 meters, thanks to decisions of people who don't ask about this anyone and just bike from the City Hall to their homes 2 Kms away.

Helsinki politicians are so crazy that this might become true despite long plans of motorway tunnels between Pasila and E18/E75 etc and strong rejection from Traffic authorities and all the rest of the city and region except those who live in the city center.
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Old December 11th, 2013, 03:41 PM   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
RV might be referring to images like this:



It is contained in a long-term prestudy spanning until 2040 compiled by the regional road agency and the local municipalities, both not being a part of the money-owning decision making pipeline. There are no further plans to upgrade this road section.

The black figures reflect the current AADT. The highest figure 20700 (not 26000 as RV tells) applies to sections within the city limits if Jyväskylä where there already is a motorway or a 2+2 road. Across the whole section in question, the AADT varies from 5700 to 16200 (not from 10000 to 26000). The percentages show the share of the heavy vehicles. The red figures show the projected AADT in the year 2040.

That prestudy does not suggest constructing a motorway across the whole section. Instead, it suggest taking a three-wave development action to build a motorway until Muurame (the green double line), a 2+2 road until Korpilahti (the red double line), and a 2+1 road for the rest. Two short 2+1 sections already exist.

The prestudy introduces a totally new concept of a "mini interchange" to separate the local traffic:



The road section was built in 1950's and it is part of an important east-west transport corridor. However, it lost a lot of its importance in mid-1990's, when the main north-south corridor 4/E75 was moved to the east side of the lake Päijänne. The section is far from reaching the country-wide TOP20 list of traffic investments (roads, railways, waterways) receiving the most money and priority.

I just don't understand why this 2+1-madness. Why not directly 2+2? All road sections with more than 10 000 ADT should be at least 2+2, and will be needed to widen in the future anyways at a higher cost. The whole section Tampere-Jyväskylä should be 2+2.
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