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Old March 14th, 2016, 10:51 PM   #701
RV
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Still, the only agreed projects are the ongoing upgrades on the Ring 1: The tunneling at the west end, and the third lanes between Leppävaara and Konala (road 120). The latter one includes some minor adjustments to the northbound ramps of the junction at 3/E12.

The blog entries with maps (sorry guys, a nice opportunity to learn Finnish):

http://teilla.blogspot.fi/2016/02/samppanjasapeli.html

http://teilla.blogspot.fi/2015/12/ra...istorataa.html
Yeah, those are "3rd phase"-projects that I mentioned on Helsinki side, just for Myllypuro/Kontula interchanges Helsinki asked for money in 2018-2020 or so.

Kivikko interchange in eastern Helsinki is soon finished (or is it already?). The bridge over the crossing sreet is 3x3 to facilitate the latter widening up to the eastern end. It is a huge improvement to a huge amount of traffic going to Viikki/Latokartano, a growing notorious suburb, that have been forced to drive westwards from the East to Kehä I up to Malmi and then turn to a congested 2 km-long 1+1-laned old street - same if you wanted to go from Viikki to the East.

I think those third lanes-works started this month in Konala. Ridiculous, that they have been being waited for so long because of a municipality border!

E12/3 is getting 4 lanes straight westwards, but besides that and some minor actions that you mentioned it is indeed the most ridiculous interchange in the world - traffic from the West to Tampere has to turn to a small street right, then again right to another small street and then left to E12/3. Plans for upgrading exist, but again, that is the "3rd phase"...

BUT actually I got a tweet from minister Berner who said that new projects will be started also under this government (by 2018) and that they will be put public in April. We'll see... Kehä III upgrading at least was in the last government's list to make in 2018-2022. A problem is that they, as typically, spent 150M e for emergency repairs between E12/3 and 135, but didn't add the third lanes (why?!) while quitting traffic lights and building 2 new interchanges. The capacity is 2x2 and traffic levels up to 90,000...

An acute problem is Helsinki's accesses capacity problems - nearly all are 2x2 since their were built some over 50 years ago.

Last edited by RV; March 15th, 2016 at 12:36 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 06:35 PM   #702
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I think those third lanes-works started this month in Konala. Ridiculous, that they have been being waited for so long because of a municipality border!
The delay is not about the local border but the bridges at the Ring 1/120 junction. They are too narrow, and to be replaced. The area is challenging, because there are 15-35 meters of clay and other bad materials on top of the solid bedrock, and the foundation will be bloody expensive.

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E12/3 is getting 4 lanes straight westwards, but besides that and some minor actions that you mentioned it is indeed the most ridiculous interchange in the world - traffic from the West to Tampere has to turn to a small street right, then again right to another small street and then left to E12/3. Plans for upgrading exist, but again, that is the "3rd phase"...
As always, money talks. The SE sector of the junction is a no-no-go area (part of the Helsinki Central Park), and a 3rd level flyover ramp would be needed. They are expensive. Something like this would be acceptable:

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Old March 15th, 2016, 07:19 PM   #703
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^So it is planned. Finland spends really extremely low amounts of money on infrastructure. For example, third lanes needed on many roads long ago, relatively cheap, have to wait for decades.
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Old March 17th, 2016, 07:04 AM   #704
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Any updates on the final E18 section leading to the Russian border?
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Old March 17th, 2016, 09:03 AM   #705
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Any updates on the final E18 section leading to the Russian border?
The motorway section of 32 km in length is under construction. The projected opening date is March 1st, 2018.
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Old March 17th, 2016, 02:01 PM   #706
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It's kinda unbelievable how people hate cars in Helsinki (or that city planning council people, or that 1% of the population that wants to destroy motorways and make tolls etc that decides about everything on traffic issues and occult their plans from the 99%, I guess in Stockholm there are not radical Greens on leading city planning posts).

People, who move on a radius max 2 Km a day on bike and plan and decide for the whole region and really think guys from 40 Km away should a) not come to disturb our city with their filthy cars b) commute by bike and tram.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 12:17 PM   #707
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Strictly speaking, the motorway on 7/E18 will still not reach the Russian border but stop short 2 km of it. The actual border crossing will still be a standard road, as there are no current plans on a motorway on the Russian side.

We'll see if that changes in the future and if we will see an actual motorway border crossing. Even if we won't, we will probably see traffic increase on 387 towards Lappeenranta; it might some day become tempting to improve that road and simply renumber it to 7. (Not necessarily in this order, knowing the bureaucrats.)
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Old March 21st, 2016, 03:28 PM   #708
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Strictly speaking, the motorway on 7/E18 will still not reach the Russian border but stop short 2 km of it. The actual border crossing will still be a standard road, as there are no current plans on a motorway on the Russian side.

We'll see if that changes in the future and if we will see an actual motorway border crossing. Even if we won't, we will probably see traffic increase on 387 towards Lappeenranta; it might some day become tempting to improve that road and simply renumber it to 7. (Not necessarily in this order, knowing the bureaucrats.)
The Finnish/Russian border is the outer perimeter of the EU as well as the Schengen area. That is why it is a high-bureaucracy hot spot, and it will not gain benefit from a through-motorway road.

Anyway, the new road will be a 2+2 one until the roundabout 800 meters to the west of the border station. The border station on the map lies at the upper edge:



I have speculated in 2013 if the current road 26 Hamina-Taavetti would be upgraded to a motorway. The current road is one of the lousiest section at the main road network, and it is subject to higher load after the E18 got completed up to Hamina.

The alternative option is to replace the road 387 Vaalimaa-Lappeenranta by extending the motorway up to the road 6 in Lappeenranta:

http://teilla.blogspot.fi/2013/08/se...enrantaan.html
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Old March 21st, 2016, 06:19 PM   #709
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Having a motorway border crossing on a controlled border would not be a unique thing. USA and Mexico have one, USA and Canada have several, so have Malaysia and Singapore as well as China proper and HK. Switzerland had those with France, Germany and Italy long before Schengen. Obviously the border crossing will be a bottleneck, but that is less a concern for locals when long distance traffic has its own road.

It depends on the future AADT and of course on Russians, whether they build a motorway up to the border from their side or not.

Anyway, the motorway ending in Vaalimaa seems a little waste of money in the current situation. What is mostly needed is a parking area for lorries to ease the pressure along the current road, and one like that is being built anyway as part of the motorway project (but not as part of the motorway).
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Old March 21st, 2016, 06:31 PM   #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Having a motorway border crossing on a controlled border would not be a unique thing. USA and Mexico have one, USA and Canada have several, so have Malaysia and Singapore as well as China proper and HK. Switzerland had those with France, Germany and Italy long before Schengen. Obviously the border crossing will be a bottleneck, but that is less a concern for locals when long distance traffic has its own road.

It depends on the future AADT and of course on Russians, whether they build a motorway up to the border from their side or not.

Anyway, the motorway ending in Vaalimaa seems a little waste of money in the current situation. What is mostly needed is a parking area for lorries to ease the pressure along the current road, and one like that is being built anyway as part of the motorway project (but not as part of the motorway).
There is a working one at the HU-SRB border at Röszke/Horgos.

https://goo.gl/HKT3XZ
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Old March 21st, 2016, 06:37 PM   #711
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There is a working one at the HU-SRB border at Röszke/Horgos.
Ah yes, thanks for reminding. Hungary and Romania have one too (intra EU but non-Schengen).
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Old March 21st, 2016, 10:12 PM   #712
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Russia is planning to built soon a 2x3 motorway from SPB to the Finnish border. Or dunno now that our relationship has so much deteriorated because of the media than two years ago... :/
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Old March 21st, 2016, 10:28 PM   #713
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Ah yes, thanks for reminding. Hungary and Romania have one too (intra EU but non-Schengen).
Welcome. I take this border once a month. It is always a pleasure

The Nagylak one to Romania is much easier as there is no custom control there.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 10:50 PM   #714
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It depends on the future AADT and of course on Russians, whether they build a motorway up to the border from their side or not.
I am quite confident that there will be a slowly-working checkpoint on the Russian side in the future, too. A 1+1 road between the endpoints of the motorways will exceed the capacity needs for the coming decades.

Quote:
Anyway, the motorway ending in Vaalimaa seems a little waste of money in the current situation. What is mostly needed is a parking area for lorries to ease the pressure along the current road, and one like that is being built anyway as part of the motorway project (but not as part of the motorway).
The current 7/E18 was built 50+ years ago, and it is lousy and dangerous. The AADT figures of the motorway currently do not meet the Finnish criteria for investing into a motorway. However, the traffic volumes at the border are pretty unpredictable, and may rocket quickly. It is cheaper to build a motorway in one pass rather than first building a 1+1 road and then upgrading it.

Anyway, Finland has committed to upgrade the E18 to meet the motorway standards by 2015. (Ref: European Council Essen Meeting 1994) A three-year delay is about nothing in the context of EU.

The truck parking (and buffering) area is under construction and due to open in January 2017.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 05:03 PM   #715
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Russia is planning to built soon a 2x3 motorway from SPB to the Finnish border. Or dunno now that our relationship has so much deteriorated because of the media than two years ago... :/
The project is definitely happening. Here's the thread about it on the St.Petersburg's projects forum:
http://spb-projects.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3724

In a nutshell:
- construction of motorway within St.Petesburg administrative borders is done (a project known as 'Western Speed Diameter')
- reconstruction of 47km-65km segment is happening right now, opens in 2018
- the other segments are all in various stages of planning, including the final one reaching the border

Also, congratulations on writing a forum post without using the words 'crazy', 'greens', 'cycling' and 'trams'!
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 06:14 PM   #716
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What is the average driving time Helsinki - St. Petersburg including average waiting time at the border and all the border formalities? Having russian visa, are there any specialities needed to do or pay before going into border formalities with own car?
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 08:23 PM   #717
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What is the average driving time Helsinki - St. Petersburg including average waiting time at the border and all the border formalities? Having russian visa, are there any specialities needed to do or pay before going into border formalities with own car?
The duration of border crossing is somewhat unpredictable. In addition, the weather conditions might have a more severe impact on the Russian side than in Finland. I think the scheduled duration of 7.5 hours of the Lux Express bus could be used as a baseline.

Typically, people buy some extra insurance before entering Russia, because of the characteristics of the Russian insurance policies.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 02:16 AM   #718
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Also note Finnish and Russian holiday seasons, especially new year.

Along with the border crossing time, a lot also depends on the location of the actual destinations. Particularly, whether they are on the "right side" or "wrong side" of the city.

As for answering to keber's question, 5 hours is the minimum, given non stop driving, no traffic jams and ultra smooth border control. On the other side sky is the limit. If you are planning a holiday trip and doing this section on any given single day, do not schedule any other activities for that day.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 04:30 AM   #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The delay is not about the local border but the bridges at the Ring 1/120 junction. They are too narrow, and to be replaced. The area is challenging, because there are 15-35 meters of clay and other bad materials on top of the solid bedrock, and the foundation will be bloody expensive.



As always, money talks. The SE sector of the junction is a no-no-go area (part of the Helsinki Central Park), and a 3rd level flyover ramp would be needed. They are expensive. Something like this would be acceptable:

Or that yellow line could be an underpass (less visual pollution, but more expensive to build).
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Originally Posted by RV View Post
It's kinda unbelievable how people hate cars in Helsinki (or that city planning council people, or that 1% of the population that wants to destroy motorways and make tolls etc that decides about everything on traffic issues and occult their plans from the 99%, I guess in Stockholm there are not radical Greens on leading city planning posts).

People, who move on a radius max 2 Km a day on bike and plan and decide for the whole region and really think guys from 40 Km away should a) not come to disturb our city with their filthy cars b) commute by bike and tram.
Helsinki looks (and Finns often complain it is) as car-oriented as anything in the US or Canada, though. There's enough on-the-ground car infrastructure in the area that the city and region can easily afford to prioritize its bike and mass transit networks for the next generation or so. Oslo, Stockholm, and Copenhagen all already have a better modal balance than does Helsinki.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 09:03 AM   #720
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Russia is planning to built soon a 2x3 motorway from SPB to the Finnish border. Or dunno now that our relationship has so much deteriorated because of the media than two years ago... :/
The motorway project is split up into 5 sectors. The first sector (interchange with ZSD-65km) is under active construction right now, and works on the next two are planned to start sometime this year (as planning for them is more or less finished). That should bring the motorway to Vyborg. The other 2 sectors leading up to the Finnish border are awaiting financing, theoretically if work was to begin on them this year (it most likely won't but that's not the point) they would be done by the end of 2018.
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