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Old December 17th, 2007, 09:31 PM   #61
hudkina
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The white population in the greater downtown area is beginning to rise as the area diversifies.
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Old December 17th, 2007, 10:34 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudkina View Post
The white population in the greater downtown area is beginning to rise as the area diversifies.
" Correct! " That's how It occurs. You may, already, notice as more affluent Whites return to Downtown how It's becoming " chic " and more exclusive. Which, ironically, will create more reinvestment and change.

Thank God, today's young professionals weren't born and haunted by the race riots of the 1950's and 1960's like Their parents! Who swore off Downtown and the rest of Detroit. Detroit WILL overcome It's image problems if EVERYONE in Detroit overcomes It's " crime " and " violent " stigmas. Then the rest, of the world, will follow! I'm not from Detroit, but I join You in saying....

" We shall Overcome! " - famous Civil Rights anthem
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Old December 18th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #63
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They should make a reality show called bring back Detroit. I would invest there it's very cheap for a city with a very affluent metro area and a sizeable downtown.
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Old December 18th, 2007, 09:20 PM   #64
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They should make a reality show called bring back Detroit. I would invest there it's very cheap for a city with a very affluent metro area and a sizeable downtown.
" What a, clever, Idea! " THAT'S the sort of progressive thinking cities like Detroit need to revitalize Them. If Detroit's (downtown) real estate market is stable, You could garner a reasonable return on Your investment.... providing the Downtown market isn't Auto Industry dependent. Good, thriving, downtowns have NOT ONLY a mix of office, residential, hotel, retail, and entertainment. But, a strong local desire to keep Them successful!
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Old December 25th, 2007, 09:40 PM   #65
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Detroit (Update) link

Here's the, latest, confirmation (downtown) Detroit's coming back....

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Old December 25th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Quite frankly, it's not about how it looks. It's about safety, danger and crime. These houses and beautiful churches are prettier then most neighboorhoods in Toronto, Montreal, etc... and every city has slums and ghettos and ugly places (except maybe in Switzerland). But the couple of times I've been to Detroit have revealed a whole lot more. Buying chocolate bars behind a foot of bulletproof plexiglass, being held up at gunpoint downtown near the state theatre, etc... Note the high fencing in front of the houses in the photos. These are not experiences that poeple remember fondly. As for the American Empire, I think the whole "decline" thing is a lot of B.S., lots of Americans are doing just great. Some areas of Detroit are actually doing really great. The distribution of wealth is probably a bit more the real issue though. Just an opinion...
good post, I didn't noticed the fences right away, after reading your post, I saw that. The city is in fact interesting, it seems more authentic American.

But I didn't get the "old and new in one picture" thing, for me that's all new, and I can't distinguish those houses, and without any architectural relevance.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 09:16 AM   #67
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Quote:
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I don't think Detroit has a "yuppie gangster" problem. Most of the people who dress like that are low-income. And I think most suburbanites don't find that lifestyle to be particularly appealing.

Though I do think it is funny that some people in places like San Diego or Seattle imitate that style.
Suburban Detroit is one of the least "yuppie" amongst major American suburbs, resembles Canadian suburbs.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 04:45 PM   #68
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I went to an interesting exhibition in Manchester, England a few weeks ago called 'Shrinking Cities'. It featured Detroit and showed such details as the 'fortifications' that were built to separate the mainly white suburbs from the inner city areas with their black immigrants from the American South.

There was also an aerial photograph of the Brush Park area, taken in 1993. It was an area of the city that looked like it had been an exclusive residential neighbourhood when first built in the nineteenth century but was reduced to a wilderness of empty lots, collapsed buildings and some still intact but obviously dilapidated grand houses.

I've done some research on this on the internet since then. The problem of 'white flight' really started in the 40s and 50s and apparently took place very quickly. It was, to a certain extent, exacerbated by the local estate agents (realtors?) who were known to arrange for a black family to move into a street and then do some scaremongering amongst the white population that if they didn't move very soon, their houses would drop in value as more and more blacks arrived. The message that blacks equalled crime was never far from the surface.

Of course, white flight has taken place in other cities but seems to have been far worse in Detroit. I think there were a number of factors at work. One would have been the recession in the automobile industry, creating the economic conditions that foster crime and emigration. Another factor could be that the very lifeblood of Detroit, the automobile, helped to kill the city.

I remember talking to a guy from Detroit some years ago whilst on holiday in Italy. He told me that the craze for 'cruising' first took off in Detroit and not California. The access that US citizens have to cars is always remarkable and almost everyone over the age of 16 seems to have their own car unless they have some health issue or are banned or desperately poor. (In fact, we used to joke that what Americans did for the first time on the back seat of a car, Britons did round the back of the bike sheds).

The access to cars and cheap fuel coupled with the new freeways meant that people on middle incomes, could afford to leave the inner city and commute to and from work whilst living in suburbs with their own shopping malls.

From that point of view, white flight had a positive side to it. People leaving the denser inner suburbs could have larger houses and more open space whilst not having the down side of having to integrate with poor blacks from the segregationist South.

Looking at those photographs, whilst the new houses don't have the architectural flair of the earlier ones, it would be nice if we built houses of that quality in Britain. I really hope Detroit gets its act together before too long and there do seem to be some signs that things are beginning to go right at last.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #69
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interesting pix!
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 07:20 PM   #70
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Detroit is a fascinating city. When I visit I think back to how great a place it must have been in the 20's....the architecture downtown, the magnificent theatres eg the Fox, the French influence in the downtown area road system.....its all quite unique even though many parts of the downtown area are very scary after 6pm. Now there is Ford Field and the new Tiger Stadium, the Fox Centre, the Detroit Opera House, Greektown.....all very impressive.
Then I drive down Grand Avenue from Redford Township and it looks like a bombed out area of some German cities in WW2. It goes on for miles like this. There is not enough money anywhere to fix up the rot and deterioration that is Grand Avenue. Its like being in some third world country. Also there's the vast industrial wasteland of the Rouge River area that surely has never been duplicated in any other city in the world. Hard to believe you are in such a scenic state as Michigan.
Having said that its is great to see the other areas of the city that have been fixed up and improved. There's a long, long way to go yet in changing the perception and reality of Detroit but its a good start.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 02:04 AM   #71
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i love that city!!!!!
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 05:56 AM   #72
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Post some pictures of the new MGM Grand Casino.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 06:26 AM   #73
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Wow, wasn't as bad as I expected! Thanks for posting!

Do you have more pictures of Dearborn and the Middle Eastern community there?
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Old January 6th, 2008, 08:28 AM   #74
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The, DETROIT, News Just keeps on getting better....

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Old January 6th, 2008, 10:40 AM   #75
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Detroit's glory age has long passed. It is just barely hanging on now.
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Old January 6th, 2008, 10:04 PM   #76
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Detroit's glory age has long passed. It is just barely hanging on now.
" NEVER underestimate ANY city's ability to become great, again! " All It takes is the Ambition, Will, and Resources. The same negativity was shared, over 50 years ago, of Pittsburgh. In fact, the late and great, Frank Lloyd Wright was asked by Then city leaders what They should do about Pittsburgh. His response was, quickly and simply, to.... " Abandon It! "

Pittsburgh business and civic leaders, defiantly, pioneered THE greatest urban renewal movement in American history and brought It to astounding glory!
Transforming the " steel city " from a grim and smoky industrial wasteland, into one of America's and the World's most beautiful and vibrant cities. Now, Pittsburgh is " a Joy to Behold " !

Seattle, from One old enough to have witnessed, wasn't always the glistening and towering " Emerald City " that It is Today! It took Seattle's ambition, will, and resources to MAKE IT HAPPEN. Now, ALL know and see It's remarkable story! St. Louis, Cleveland, Minneapolis, Etc. are ALL cities ridiculed and left for dead by, mostly, East and West coast critics Who underestimated Their resolve and resources to restore Their communities. All It takes is the Ambition, Will, and Resources to become a Great City!
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Old January 7th, 2008, 12:56 AM   #77
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Martin S, you are right on so many levels. But except for one: Detroit doesn't need to get it's act together and here is why...take out exactly 1/2 of London's tax paying residents, keep them out for 30-50 years and see how the city responds. Will it get its act together on how to deal with that or won't it? I don't know if that helps me make my point, but Detroit as we know it today, didn't just let what happened to it happen. It was a very long, drawn out process that occurred after a time period of anti human rights.

Had there not been a mass exodus from Detroit, you'd still see the city suffering today like many other older American cities do. But that's not really the focus of discussion here. Detroit is unique also in that the very industry that serves as its foundation of existence also turned its back. You see, when the American freeway system was built to connect cities and regions, it was never intended to be used in the excessive way we use them today. If you look at a map of Detroit and you see the overwhelming number of freeways congregating near the downtown, that's not normal. But back then, city leaders saw freeway building as both pregressive (the wave of the future) and as a redevelopment tool to rid the city of its slums and concentrated poverty, race and crime. It sorta worked, but instead of offering equal housing treatment, the people were just reshuffled to sparkling new "projects" fit for the best animals of our society. Very much deserving.

You are absolutely right, the Federal Government established a color coded system in the housing market where an all white neighborhood was given one color (a good standing) and an integrated or minority neighborhood a poor standing. If one minority family moved into a house in the neighborhood, immediately a lower color code was given to that neighborhood and instantly housing values would go down and the nhood would be classified as "threatened". People then found it difficult to sell their homes (and at lower prices) so eventually they just sold to minorities anyway, who didn't mind living in integrated neighborhoods. But since the social elite and middle class, including well-to-do blacks (all people want the same quality of life) kept away as encouraged by the Fed. Govt, the neighborhoods typically went down the hill fast.

People fought for their neighborhoods though. Firebombing homes, which today is thought of as an inner city black-instigated form of terrorism actually was initiated by white people when blacks moved into their nhoods. Nobody talks about that though and blames Detroit's exodus on things like the rebellion of 1967 when blacks who met their tolerance level of repression, spoke out and acted out to demand the same treatment (in life) as whites. The act got violent and was equally partook in by both races, however today white people call the event in 1967 a riot where blacks call it a rebellion. I, along w/ other informed, white city residents lean toward the term rebellion, however cannot dispute the fact that it heightened into a riot where parts of the city were merely destroyed. That's not a rebellion.

But that's how America chooses to remember it...while the social underclass of today's world is forced to live in it.

In many, if not most cases, things aren't as bad as what is shown at face value. People of all races and classes fought peaceful battles like they still do today just like residents of any other place in the world would do. Yah, today, there's a lot more equality, but apparently by studying Detroit's demographics there is also a lot of inequality. You can have an entire city of blacks or whites and and it shouldn't make a difference regarding the high levels of poverty, the number of children born into broken homes w/ little to no guidance, impossible-to-pay insurance rates for less-than-acceptable city services such as fire, water, and police protection, rotting and closing schools, drug houses spoiling what otherwise would and could be one of the nicest neighborhoods in the country...

But the American social design says race does matter. It was designed by the white majority and the inequality is being stirred by all people..."ghetto pride", "no snitching", "murder inc.", "public use of the n-word", "carrying weapons", "flashing dollar bills at the expense of an education", "kids everywhere who think its cool to emulate Eminem", the list goes on and on...and this is what I mean by "stirring"...it's not just a black/white issue anymore and this is one of the reasons why America is making more enimies than not.

I went to the Shrinking Cities exhibit when it was here in Detroit and I thought it was done very well. For people who aren't surrounded by the history and actuality of this topic, it was a very informative exhibit and from what I learned before visiting it, just reaffirmed my education even more. It's very complex and is more than just the industrial base (Oakland County thrives on the auto industry's tech and research/development sector)...it's more than just race, class, and aging infrastructure. Detroit's situation tells a story in a unique way. You can see the scars and hear the noise, but unless you dig a little deeper to truely understand what happened to Detroit, you're probably going to sound like every other American..."It was someone elses' fault and not mine".
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Old January 7th, 2008, 01:02 AM   #78
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Detroit's glory age has long passed. It is just barely hanging on now.
That means nothing. You need to ellaborate with specifics. Especially since I can provide you with evidence that contradicts your vague statement.
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Old February 16th, 2008, 01:27 PM   #79
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Harb Imports,... "War Imports"? Harb means war! But nevertheless, most hispanics live way better in a rundown US suburb than in their own countries! And I have expected images that are worse!
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Old February 16th, 2008, 05:55 PM   #80
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When I do the neighborhood tours I usually do them from within my car because it is easier to cover more ground. I'll just drive through and slow down just enough to snap a picture. I usually drive about 15-20 MPH through the neighborhood streets and since the traffic is generally light on side streets I rarely get people behind me. If I do, I usually turn a corner or something. I don't think people even notice me taking pictures, especially because I try to avoid taking pictures of people directly.

Granted, when it comes to the neighborhoods in the greater downtown area, I prefer to walk around because its easier than trying to navigate the streets by car. But even then I try to avoid taking pictures of people because it does sort of feel wierd.

Hudkina, I'm just moving your pictures over to the Urban Showcase section for self-taken photos!
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