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Old August 14th, 2012, 03:29 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagor666 View Post
Italy is more for relaxing and just having fun while Swiss pass roads are more huge and scary
It depends.

Passo Spluga and Passo Gavia are more "scary" than any Swiss Road IMO.

What the Swiss passes have is close proximity of glaciers, something you don't find in Italy except in 2 cases.

Also, you can drive around 4 passes in a day in short distance (San Gottardo, Furka, Grimsel, Susten) in Switzerland.

Actually, I think Passo Gavia is probably the most challenging pass to drive (> 2000m) in Italy. IT's narrow, it can't fit 2 cars throughout many sectors, and it has uneven pavement.

The only pass I didn't see swarmed by bikers indeed.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 05:45 AM   #282
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Quote:
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Beautiful photos, 71Piotr. Switzerland at 2,300 m above sea level looks exactly like Bolivia at 4,300 m above sea level.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 09:09 AM   #283
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Also, you can drive around 4 passes in a day in short distance (San Gottardo, Furka, Grimsel, Susten) in Switzerland.
In Italy there's plenty of passes you can drive in short distance. For instance, the very famous Sellaronda: Sella, Pordoi, Campolongo and Gardena.

Many others indeed: you can for instance drive Resia, Stelvio, Foscagno, Forcella di Livigno, Aprica, Mortirolo, Gavia and Tonale all in one day.

Last edited by g.spinoza; August 14th, 2012 at 12:40 PM.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 11:19 AM   #284
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Beautiful photos, 71Piotr. Switzerland at 2,300 m above sea level looks exactly like Bolivia at 4,300 m above sea level.
I noticed that with the United States as well. I've seen videos of Pikes Peak Road, that goes up to 4.302 meters, but looks like just about any Alpine road just over the tree line at 2.400 m or so. The Rocky Mountains are rather disappointing if you're used to Alpine scenery with snow-capped mountains and large glaciers, combined with deep valleys and large differences between the valley floor and the summits. (unless you go further north into Canada and Alaska).
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Old August 14th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #285
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Main roads and railways in the Rocky Mountains are also often high compared to those in the Alps (2.500-3.000 m vs 1.000 to 1.500) and with few tunnels (the longest for road in the Rocky Mountains is less than 3 km long, compared to the many between 10 and 17 km in the Alps). Also long rail tunnels are not so common in the Rocky Mountains (although there are some above 8 km in length as railways need not so steep ramps).
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Old August 14th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
In Italy there's plenty of passes you can drive in short distance. For instance, the very famous Sellaronda: Sella, Pordoi, Campolongo and Gardena.

Many others indeed: you can for instance drive Resia, Stelvio, Foscagno, Forcella di Livigno, Aprica, Mortirolo, Gavia and Tonale all in one day.
Of course you can, I've driven myself the Sellaronda 3 or 4 times I think.

What I think attracts foreign drivers more to the Susten-Grimsel-Furka-Gotthard is that roads there are mostly wide. I mean: really wide for Alpine standards. So much more comfortable for "low country" drivers that see anything above 1000m as a tall mountain

Also, it is possible to fit them in an otherwise straightforward route to Italy.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #287
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I noticed that with the United States as well. I've seen videos of Pikes Peak Road, that goes up to 4.302 meters, but looks like just about any Alpine road just over the tree line at 2.400 m or so. The Rocky Mountains are rather disappointing if you're used to Alpine scenery with snow-capped mountains and large glaciers, combined with deep valleys and large differences between the valley floor and the summits. (unless you go further north into Canada and Alaska).
The Rockies in Colorado are too close to Equator and too far from a major humidity source to have significant snow accumulation to form glaciers.

Moreover, whereas the Alps are giant mountains popping in the middle of otherwise gentle low hilly terrain, the eastern slopes of the Rockies rise above an already high plateau that rises slowly from the Missouri. Denver, which is the last major city "in the Plains", is 1600m high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Main roads and railways in the Rocky Mountains are also often high compared to those in the Alps (2.500-3.000 m vs 1.000 to 1.500) and with few tunnels (the longest for road in the Rocky Mountains is less than 3 km long, compared to the many between 10 and 17 km in the Alps). Also long rail tunnels are not so common in the Rocky Mountains (although there are some above 8 km in length as railways need not so steep ramps).
Non-urban road tunnels are incredible scarce in US. The Eisenhower tunnel is the longest one in US, with a meager length of 2.700m. But its portals are very high, above 3100m, which is higher than any paved public though road in Europe. Gosh, even the nearby Loveland pass is higher than that (3.670m as I read) and open year-round.

"Base Tunnels" don't make sense in the Rockies anyway, they are hundreds of kms wide at the narrowest point.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 05:48 PM   #288
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Gosh, even the nearby Loveland pass is higher than that (3.670m as I read) and open year-round.
So no danger of avalanches, there...
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Old August 14th, 2012, 05:51 PM   #289
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Hazmat trucks are not allowed in the Eisenhower Tunnel, so they must use the Loveland Pass. I'm wondering what's more dangerous, driving through a tunnel with hazardous goods or carry them in treacherous winter conditions across a steep pass.

There is a similar issue in the Netherlands, where hazardous goods are not permitted in certain tunnels so hazmat trucks have to drive through city centers or otherwise residential areas to avoid them.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #290
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In Bolivia the treeline is around 4,000 m and the snowline is around 6,000 m. The humidity from the Amazon basin brings snow, but with warming the glaciers are starting to disappear.

No tunnels in Bolivia (nor in Peru). The principal passes are all higher than 4,400 m, higher than the highest mountains in the continental USA. The highest, in Ticlio, Peru, 4,818 m, is 8 m higher than Mont Blanc.

The density of the atmosphere at these altitudes is between 55% and 60% of that of sea level.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 07:28 PM   #291
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Quote:
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What I think attracts foreign drivers more to the Susten-Grimsel-Furka-Gotthard is that roads there are mostly wide. I mean: really wide for Alpine standards.
I like narrower (but not narrow) roads across mountain passes, so I feel more in touch with nature.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #292
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Trucks with danegrous goods are neither allowed on long transalpine tunnel. When they have to pass the tunnel is closed to other traffic, with these trucks running in batches (that's done also whern the Loveland pass is closed). That's why there are many such trucks on the Simplon pass and on trains in Switzerland.
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Old August 15th, 2012, 03:23 AM   #293
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Quote:
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I like narrower (but not narrow) roads across mountain passes, so I feel more in touch with nature.
Then try the not very familiar Sella Chiampon,one small but very fascinating road
Sella Ronda,Dammastock Runde - what beatiful names you here around here.Once i drived 21 pass roads on one day in the Dolomiti region and it isnt realy hard cause you have so many passroads around Canazei maybe i can find a tour that has 30 pass roads and brake my record
How about a little contest,you have to make a tour max.500km,with so many differed pass roads as possible?
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Old August 15th, 2012, 05:50 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I noticed that with the United States as well. I've seen videos of Pikes Peak Road, that goes up to 4.302 meters, but looks like just about any Alpine road just over the tree line at 2.400 m or so. The Rocky Mountains are rather disappointing if you're used to Alpine scenery with snow-capped mountains and large glaciers, combined with deep valleys and large differences between the valley floor and the summits. (unless you go further north into Canada and Alaska).
The thing to remember about the Rockies, at least at the latitude of Colorado, is that the Great Plains slope gradually, getting higher as you move west, so the "flat" lands east of the mountains are actually a mile above sea level. Denver's nickname is the Mile-High City. The highest peaks in the Rockies are 14,000 feet (4,500 meters-ish?) above sea level, but only 9,000 feet (3,000 meters) above the country at their base.

EDIT: I see Suburbanist already said this.
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Old August 15th, 2012, 06:01 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Trucks with danegrous goods are neither allowed on long transalpine tunnel. When they have to pass the tunnel is closed to other traffic, with these trucks running in batches (that's done also whern the Loveland pass is closed). That's why there are many such trucks on the Simplon pass and on trains in Switzerland.
You see these along the Pennsylvania Turnpike:

http://www.aaroads.com/northeast/pen...xit_189_01.jpg

Good luck reading it at speed, but presumably those affected by it know the symbols.
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Old August 15th, 2012, 12:17 PM   #296
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I'll post here a few pics of TransBucegi road - another recently built alpine road at over 2.000 m high in Central Romania:













A small part of the road loooks like this and one needs a capable off-roader to go there, and luckily there are plenty offroaders who do taxing at good prices (about 15 EUR/person for a 35 km ride on the alpine road). The "road" will stay like that on that section because it is part of a protected natural parc:

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Old August 15th, 2012, 03:02 PM   #297
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The "road" will stay like that on that section because it is part of a protected natural parc
So?
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Old August 15th, 2012, 03:26 PM   #298
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Beautiful photos, 71Piotr. Switzerland at 2,300 m above sea level looks exactly like Bolivia at 4,300 m above sea level.
We're lucky if it's that green at 1.300 meters!
https://maps.google.no/?ll=61.53317,...72.19,,0,10.51
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Old August 15th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #299
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We're lucky if it's that green at 1.300 meters!
https://maps.google.no/?ll=61.53317,...72.19,,0,10.51
Where in Norway does the treeline reach 0m? I now Trømso has trees but Nordkapp doesn't.
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Old August 15th, 2012, 04:20 PM   #300
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So?
So it should stay that way for an authentic safari experience.

At least at night there are chances to meet bears so not far from it.
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