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Old June 2nd, 2014, 11:55 PM   #3061
Surel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A problem with the tendering process is the fact that it's very hard to reject an offer that appears to be too low. You need to have very good arguments to make such a case stick in court.

We've seen in the past that low tenders were rejected, appealed to in court, they got the job, but then couldn't deliver. That only slows the process down.
The contracts should be forged in such a way that if the contractors would not perform the government would get profit out of it. Bank guarantees are ideal for this. The contracts have to contain very good schedule and there has to be perfect overseeing of the works from the tendering authority. Simply said, you need high quality work on the side of the state authority in specifying the desired results, schedules, quality and guaranties. Then the low bids don't pose a problem anymore. You simply take the low bid.

You solve several problems at the same time by using bank guarantees in this. First, if the company does not perform, the contract cancels, government does not pay for not finished work and government gets instantly paid for any possible delays and additional costs it incurs. The new tendering can begin right away for a new contractor. The banks will perform throughout due diligence on whether the contractor is able to deliver, if they deem the contractor unsuitable, it won't be able to compete in the tender. In this way, there are two independent parties with interests of making the contractor delivering. The prices might get slightly higher due to the risk margin that the banks would charge though, but it is surely worth it as it moves the risk from the state authority.
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 10:44 AM   #3062
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Another sign with Tern font on.

CLICK HERE

The photo was taken by user expwy from dialnice.info site.

The old one is here:
https://www.google.sk/maps/@48.32228...4TsMcG3Zig!2e0

Have to say: FINALLY. Competent people have found out how to adapt the font size regarding the size of the sign and the word length of destination
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Old June 3rd, 2014, 02:07 PM   #3063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
The contracts should be forged in such a way that if the contractors would not perform the government would get profit out of it. Bank guarantees are ideal for this. The contracts have to contain very good schedule and there has to be perfect overseeing of the works from the tendering authority. Simply said, you need high quality work on the side of the state authority in specifying the desired results, schedules, quality and guaranties. Then the low bids don't pose a problem anymore. You simply take the low bid.

You solve several problems at the same time by using bank guarantees in this. First, if the company does not perform, the contract cancels, government does not pay for not finished work and government gets instantly paid for any possible delays and additional costs it incurs. The new tendering can begin right away for a new contractor. The banks will perform throughout due diligence on whether the contractor is able to deliver, if they deem the contractor unsuitable, it won't be able to compete in the tender. In this way, there are two independent parties with interests of making the contractor delivering. The prices might get slightly higher due to the risk margin that the banks would charge though, but it is surely worth it as it moves the risk from the state authority.
This is economically equivalent to requiring the government to buy and pay for an insurance policy that would pay the government if the contractor does not perform, with the price determined during the bidding stage. The extent to which your proposal above would inflate the cost should, in theory, be exactly the same as the cost for such insurance. If the risk reduction were worth the cost, somewhere in the world a government would be doing this.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 01:46 AM   #3064
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Came across some old photographs of Slovak motorways

D61 (now D1) somewhere near Trenčín, yet built in half-profile


D61 near Horná Streda exit


Bypass of Bratislava days prior to opening. Notice the missing motorway numbers which was not introduced that time.


D2 (current) Mlynská dolina exit. The construction of Sitina Tunnel had not even started yet.


One year later


Two years later


Four years later


Current state
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Old June 11th, 2014, 09:02 PM   #3065
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http://ndsas.sk/aktuality-zacina-vys...u/44372s48521c

Finally! We have contract for D1 Lietavská Lúčka - Dubná Skala with 7460m tunnel Višňové. Price is 410mil.€ and total length is 13,5 km. Project should be finished in 2019
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Old June 12th, 2014, 01:10 AM   #3066
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Last edited by albiman; June 12th, 2014 at 01:32 AM.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 02:04 AM   #3067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albiman View Post
edit

I'm quite curious, if this visualisation is any accurate by now or better, what is going to be like in real, when finished. (Since, yellow FIDIC)
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Old June 14th, 2014, 02:24 AM   #3068
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I do not think this is the most recent update. The video is quite old. Maybe some changes could happen in technical equipment, or something but the variant, bridges, ...etc. still the same.
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Old June 17th, 2014, 08:36 PM   #3069
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The groundbreaking ceremony for both sections took place today: http://www.ta3.com/clanok/1042133/vy...h-kamenov.html.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i15 View Post
D3 Žilina Strážov - Brodno: contract with Eurovia SK a.s. was signed today, construction period is 3 years and price 254,9mil € without VAT. Basicly it's viaduct over Hričov dam and tunnel "Považský Chlmec", very hard and expensive section...
Quote:
Originally Posted by i15 View Post
about 30 days, it's defined exactly in contract, but I'm too lazy to check it
Quote:
Originally Posted by i15 View Post
http://ndsas.sk/aktuality-zacina-vys...u/44372s48521c

Finally! We have contract for D1 Lietavská Lúčka - Dubná Skala with 7460m tunnel Višňové. Price is 410mil.€ and total length is 13,5 km. Project should be finished in 2019
To be completed until December 2019, see project page: http://www.ndsas.sk/useky-lietavska-lucka---dubna-skala/44223s44344c.
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Old June 17th, 2014, 10:07 PM   #3070
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Interesting comparison:

D1 Lietavská Lúčka - Dubná Skala: 13,5 km (includes 7.46 km tunnel), 410 mil. € (30,37 mil. €/km)
D3 Žilina, Strážov - Žilina, Brodno: 4.25 km (includes 2.21 km tunnel), 254,9 mil. € (59,97 mil €/km)
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Old June 17th, 2014, 10:20 PM   #3071
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I have my doubts whether they can build a 7.5 km twin-tube tunnel for an average price of € 30 million/km. Of course they already did a lot of exploratory work since the pilot tube was bored in 2002.
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Old June 17th, 2014, 11:08 PM   #3072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
Interesting comparison:

D1 Lietavská Lúčka - Dubná Skala: 13,5 km (includes 7.46 km tunnel), 410 mil. € (30,37 mil. €/km)
D3 Žilina, Strážov - Žilina, Brodno: 4.25 km (includes 2.21 km tunnel), 254,9 mil. € (59,97 mil €/km)
I think it is comparing apples and oranges but....

D1 13.5km, 410 million €, 5.5 years construction time (30 million €/km; 75 million €/year; 2.5km/year).
D3 4.25km, 255 million €, 3.0 years construction time (60 million €/km; 85 million €/year; 1.4km/year).

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Old June 17th, 2014, 11:44 PM   #3073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
This is economically equivalent to requiring the government to buy and pay for an insurance policy that would pay the government if the contractor does not perform, with the price determined during the bidding stage. The extent to which your proposal above would inflate the cost should, in theory, be exactly the same as the cost for such insurance. If the risk reduction were worth the cost, somewhere in the world a government would be doing this.
It is not equivalent to it because of the due diligence, different incentives and because of the fact that the government could not insure itself before the bidding process finished.

Simply financially said, in the case when the contracting companies have to provide the guaranties, they already individually bear the costs in the case of not succeeding in the tender. While if the government wants to insure itself, it would bear the costs of insuring itself taking into account all the possible winners and thus all possible scenarios. The risk premium would be already because of this just a fraction compared to the insurance.

Further on, the incentives and partnership relations are completely different. If the construction companies have to provide the guaranties, it is clear that even with a risk premium they charge, they would be the ultimate losers in a case of a failure. While with the government insured, the companies have little incentive to perform and the government has even less incentive to sit behind their backs during the construction. This would be reflected in the price of such an insurance. You need to put pressure on the construction company, which you fail to do with an insurance, but which you create with the required guaranties.

You could compare it with an insurance but it would have to be the construction companies that would insure themselves, not the government.

Last edited by Surel; June 17th, 2014 at 11:49 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2014, 08:35 PM   #3074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I have my doubts whether they can build a 7.5 km twin-tube tunnel for an average price of € 30 million/km. Of course they already did a lot of exploratory work since the pilot tube was bored in 2002.
The tunnel is about 7.5 km long and the rest of the section is 6 km long. The tunnel itself will be more expensive than 30 mil./km }which is average for whole section) while the rest of the section will be cheaper per km.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I think it is comparing apples and oranges but....

D1 13.5km, 410 million €, 5.5 years construction time (30 million €/km; 75 million €/year; 2.5km/year).
D3 4.25km, 255 million €, 3.0 years construction time (60 million €/km; 85 million €/year; 1.4km/year).

The difference in construction period lengths is caused by the difference in tunnel lengths. Of course these section aren't perfectly comparable, but price difference is still striking.
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Old June 19th, 2014, 09:59 PM   #3075
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Just to compare a similar length tunnel, the Oppdřlsstranda Tunnel in Norway is single tube, 7.430 meters long and cost € 125 million. A twin-tube tunnel would've been about double, so around € 250 million.

But Norwegian tunnels tend to be cheaper than elsewhere in Europe (blasting method). If you add the cost of a TBM (could be as much as € 50-80 million), and the cost of tunnel segments as opposed to bare rock, the cost could soar to over € 350 million for this similar length tunnel.

However, different geologic conditions make it difficult to make a useful comparison based on length alone. I think Slovakian soil is softer than the granite in Norway, which is less advantageous.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 09:42 AM   #3076
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Here's a new video visualisating a section of D1 Lietavská Lúčka - Dubná Skala.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=BHJnOJAJbbg

Enjoy.

Last edited by mirheldt; June 20th, 2014 at 08:47 PM.
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Old June 21st, 2014, 01:16 AM   #3077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Just to compare a similar length tunnel, the Oppdřlsstranda Tunnel in Norway is single tube, 7.430 meters long and cost € 125 million. A twin-tube tunnel would've been about double, so around € 250 million.

But Norwegian tunnels tend to be cheaper than elsewhere in Europe (blasting method). If you add the cost of a TBM (could be as much as € 50-80 million), and the cost of tunnel segments as opposed to bare rock, the cost could soar to over € 350 million for this similar length tunnel.

However, different geologic conditions make it difficult to make a useful comparison based on length alone. I think Slovakian soil is softer than the granite in Norway, which is less advantageous.
Geologic conditions in Slovakia are considerably different than those in Norway, therefore it's pretty much incomparable.

The 410 million price is let's say acceptable, although the cheapest offer for D1 Lietavská Lúčka - Dubná Skala section, was only 338,29 mil. € (25*mil. €/km), this bid was of course excluded.

Problem is mentioned D3 section. The cheapest offer for D3 Strážov - Brodno was 163,4 mil. € (38.4 mil. €/km), however now it's 255 mil. € (60 mil. €/km) what is enormous difference.
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Old June 24th, 2014, 06:52 PM   #3078
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Slovak newspapers just waken up :-) (D4)

http://aktualne.atlas.sk/exkluzivne-.../dnes/doprava/
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Old June 25th, 2014, 08:01 PM   #3079
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Slovak newspapers just waken up :-) (D4)

http://aktualne.atlas.sk/exkluzivne-.../dnes/doprava/

For those amongst us who can not read Slovak, could you give a shortened translation of what it says there?
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Old June 25th, 2014, 08:54 PM   #3080
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Quote:
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For those amongst us who can not read Slovak, could you give a shortened translation of what it says there?
The article doesn't say almost anything, but it contains some renders of Bratislava outer ring D4.

Resting place Rovinka


Interchange Ketelec (D4 x R7)


Bridge above Danube





Railway Bratislava - Rajka (HU) underneath the interchange Rusovce (D4 x I/2)


Interchange Rusovce (D4 x I/2)



The biggest interchange - Ivanka sever (North) (D4 x D1), the motorway also crosses Bratislava - Budapest railway


Interchange Čierna Voda, IMO totally useless interchange


Interchange Rača (D4 x II/507), interchage is placed only on one side of II/502, because on the other side there is Bratislava - Košice railway, the motorway will continue in tunnel Karpaty (9 km) right after this interchange
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