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Old December 15th, 2009, 05:42 PM   #1041
msz2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlker View Post
The most famous bridge engineering company in Czech republic - Stráský, Hustý a partneři (SHP) http://www.shp.eu/index.php?typ=SUB&showid=230 - with experience in Europe and USA
So, it isn't Slovakian masterpiece.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 06:57 PM   #1042
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Worried? We are delighted. The annual income of the motorway company will skyrocket,as most of the transport of the entire slovak economy will go through us
Well, you're welcome. However, according to Winkler-Virág (from the article), the increase in the wear and tear of the Hungarian highways is not going to be compensated for by the increase in the collected fees. So, he says it will be necessary to introduce electronic tolls in Hungary as well in order to prevent damaging the highways without collecting enough fees to keep them up.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 07:31 PM   #1043
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Electronic toll and increasing fees are 2 different things.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 08:01 PM   #1044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Worried? We are delighted. The annual income of the motorway company will skyrocket,as most of the transport of the entire slovak economy will go through us
Err...
I don't want another road 86 in Hungary. Slovakian truck should use the shortest road and not the Hungarian routes.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 08:04 PM   #1045
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We are the shortest...
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Old December 15th, 2009, 08:13 PM   #1046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlker View Post
The most famous bridge engineering company in Czech republic - Stráský, Hustý a partneři (SHP) http://www.shp.eu/index.php?typ=SUB&showid=230 - with experience in Europe and USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by msz2 View Post
So, it isn't Slovakian masterpiece.
It was designed by Slovak Dopravoprojekt. SHP just did alternative design and detailed design in a joint venture with Alfa 04, Bratislava. This section is being built by joint venture of Doprastav and Skanska led by Doprastav. The bridge above the town is being built by Doprastav only so I would say it's mostly Slovak "masterpiece"

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Worried? We are delighted. The annual income of the motorway company will skyrocket,as most of the transport of the entire slovak economy will go through us
I don't think everybody in Slovakia will start to travel through Hungary. That would be quite some detour for like 99% of traffic. Hungary should also introduce electronic toll, it will help you to get money needed for maintenance of the network and maybe also for some new sections. But, you don't have to do it because of few Slovak trucks driving through Hungary.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 08:19 PM   #1047
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A North/western part of M0 would shorten the Kosice - Bratislava trip by another 40 kilometers. Going through Slovakia is still somewhat shorter, but the Hungarian route gives the advantages that large portions of the route are via motorways. Only small parts of the Slovakian route consist of motorways.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #1048
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Really?

Korice-Zilina-Bratislava 460 km
Kosice-Miskolc-Budapest-Győr-Bratislava 450 km
Kosice-Zvolen-Nitra-Bratislava 400 km
Kosice-Sahy-Nitra-Bratislava almost the same
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Old December 15th, 2009, 08:35 PM   #1049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (HUN)RoGeR View Post
Really?

Korice-Zilina-Bratislava 460 km
Kosice-Miskolc-Budapest-Győr-Bratislava 450 km
Kosice-Zvolen-Nitra-Bratislava 400 km
Kosice-Sahy-Nitra-Bratislava almost the same
Košice - Budapest - Bratislava is almost 500 km if you will use the M0 (when M31 will be built it will be a bit less).

Anyway, traffic Bratislava - Košice is very small part of traffic in Slovakia.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 08:44 PM   #1050
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Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
Anyway, traffic Bratislava - Košice is very small part of traffic in Slovakia.
True. Long distance traffic is pretty marginal in any country. I'd say 85% of the traffic on a main road or motorway does not drive more than 60 - 80 kilometers, maybe somewhat more in big countries like Germany or France.

I know similar things in the Netherlands, for instance, local residents always grossly overestimate the "through traffic" through their village/town/neighborhood/street. Another issue is the speed of traffic. If a local tells me "people drive way too fast here", it usually turns out the V85 is within 10% of the speed limit, usually less.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 08:48 PM   #1051
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Really?

Kosice-Zilina-Bratislava 460 km @90+130km/h
Kosice-Miskolc-Budapest-Győr-Bratislava 450 km @mostly 130km/h
Kosice-Zvolen-Nitra-Bratislava 400 km @90km/h
Kosice-Sahy-Nitra-Bratislava almost the same

460/110(average of 90 and 130)=4,1 h
450/130=3,5h
400/90=4,4h

Yes,I'm pretty sure we're the sorthest.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 09:34 PM   #1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Really?

Kosice-Zilina-Bratislava 460 km @90+130km/h
Kosice-Miskolc-Budapest-Győr-Bratislava 450 km @mostly 130km/h
Kosice-Zvolen-Nitra-Bratislava 400 km @90km/h
Kosice-Sahy-Nitra-Bratislava almost the same

460/110(average of 90 and 130)=4,1 h
450/130=3,5h
400/90=4,4h

Yes,I'm pretty sure we're the sorthest.
We are talking about trucks (only trucks will pay electronic toll). Their speed is limited to 90 km/h in Slovakia outside built-up area and on motorways and I think it's similar also in Hungary.

Travelling via Hungary won't be much cheaper than in Slovakia. Trucks will still have to pay toll for some sections they will drive in Slovakia + Hungarian vignette + additional fuel cost. IMO in Hungary there won't be much more trucks then there already is.

Last edited by Qwert; December 15th, 2009 at 09:41 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2009, 10:17 PM   #1053
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I havent thought of that...though being limited and actually keeping the limit are 2 different things
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Old December 15th, 2009, 11:05 PM   #1054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlker View Post
The most famous bridge engineering company in Czech republic - Stráský, Hustý a partneři (SHP) http://www.shp.eu/index.php?typ=SUB&showid=230 - with experience in Europe and USA
Starsky and Hutch and co.
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Old December 16th, 2009, 12:29 AM   #1055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
I havent thought of that...though being limited and actually keeping the limit are 2 different things
I think speeding isn't case of trucks. I don't remember seeing some truck driving too fast on motorway.
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Old December 16th, 2009, 03:23 AM   #1056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
I think speeding isn't case of trucks. I don't remember seeing some truck driving too fast on motorway.
It happens, I was hitchhiking in the past and drivers definitely do it.
Of course nowadays it is more difficult with all the on board computers etc.
Trucker in Walse once asked me to open flap in front of pasanger seat, then to remove one of the fuses. It was his speed limiter
We did 80mph downhill
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Old December 16th, 2009, 08:53 AM   #1057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Really?

Kosice-Zilina-Bratislava 460 km @90+130km/h
Kosice-Miskolc-Budapest-Győr-Bratislava 450 km @mostly 130km/h
Kosice-Zvolen-Nitra-Bratislava 400 km @90km/h
Kosice-Sahy-Nitra-Bratislava almost the same

460/110(average of 90 and 130)=4,1 h
450/130=3,5h
400/90=4,4h

Yes,I'm pretty sure we're the sorthest.
I agree. I'd rather buy your "vignette" and drive form KE to BA via Hungary. Why should I buy Slovak vignette and the first kilometer of motorway is 200 km far away from Košice?

Let's have a comparison of routes via Hungary and via Zvolen & Nitra:

Via Hungary:
* Košice-Tornyosnémeti: dangerous and damaged road with two "junctions of death" (near by Haniska and Grajciar)
* Tornyosnémeti - Novajidrány: nice road, 110 km/h speed limit
* Novajidrány - Felsozsolca: road through villages, but not very long section
* Felsozsolca ---> Bratislava: motorway 130 km/h

and Via southern SVK:
Košice - Turňa n. B: OK, quite wide road
Turňa - Rožňava: mountain-pass Soroška, dangerous curves, many accidents
Rožňava - Tornaľa: road is wide, but quite damaged
Tornaľa - Figa: wow 10 km of half-built motorway without payment
Figa - Rim.Sobota: many curves, damaged surface of road
RS - Lučenec: much more better section with 5 km bypass of Ožďany without payment
LC- Zvolen: narrow road, any curves, damaged surface
Zvolen - Z. Moravce: mostly 2+2 R1, OK
ZM - Nitra: dangerous route, R1 U/C
Nitra - BA: of course motorway R1 & D1

...so our PM almost keep promise that KE and BA will be connected by motorway in 2010. Only one missing section between Felsozsolca and Novajidrány!
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Old December 16th, 2009, 11:36 AM   #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
We are talking about trucks (only trucks will pay electronic toll). Their speed is limited to 90 km/h in Slovakia outside built-up area and on motorways and I think it's similar also in Hungary.

Travelling via Hungary won't be much cheaper than in Slovakia. Trucks will still have to pay toll for some sections they will drive in Slovakia + Hungarian vignette + additional fuel cost. IMO in Hungary there won't be much more trucks then there already is.
Qwert, I don't know what exactly the vignette rules are in Hungary. But, if they are similar to what is currently in Slovakia, then the costs will be dramatically different. As was stated here, for Slovak transportation companies, the cost of yearly use of the Žilina-Bratislava highway will increase 18-fold. For Košice, being twice as far from Bratislava, this means that compared to the current flat yearly fee, the cost for the same use will increase 36-FOLD!!!! Moreover, most of the way they will still have to go on regular roads (R2 Kosice-Zvolen). So, it is completely ridiculous to claim that the cost will be similar (except if you think like the Slovak government and claim that the cost of PPP projects, which is 13-times more expensive than regular construction, is a good deal).

BTW, moreover, your argument hides the fact that the Zilina-Bratislava-focused Slovak government wants the trucks to drive Kosice-Bratislava via Zilina, which means that the costs will be the same even for gas when traveling via Zilina and via Budapest (~30km shorter, but up- and down-hills, difficult terrain etc.).

Finally, currently even the Czech truck drivers started protesting all the fees that Slovakia introduces with the tolls (among other things, renting some kind of a dash-board box). So, one really has to be blind (or from Zilina) to claim that the cost of a truck travel from KE to BA will be cheaper on Slovak (non-existing) highways than via Hungary.
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Old December 16th, 2009, 12:00 PM   #1059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Really?

Kosice-Zilina-Bratislava 460 km @90+130km/h
Kosice-Miskolc-Budapest-Győr-Bratislava 450 km @mostly 130km/h
Kosice-Zvolen-Nitra-Bratislava 400 km @90km/h
Kosice-Sahy-Nitra-Bratislava almost the same

460/110(average of 90 and 130)=4,1 h
450/130=3,5h
400/90=4,4h

Yes,I'm pretty sure we're the sorthest.
It's right that going via BP is mostly the shortest (duration-wise). However, you are forgetting that 460km is via downtown Budapest, which by itself can be an hour or 2 delay due to heavy traffic. And, if you take M0 around BP then it's 490-500km.

KE-ZV-BA is often faster and definitely the shortest distance. First, there is around 150 ~ 200km of highway (BA-Nitra, pieces between Nitra and Zvolen, Ozdany, Figa-Tornala, Saca-Kosice). And, even the rest of the road is mostly flat and wide (except for Soroška). So, if the traffic is not heavy, you can easily make it in 4 to 4.5hrs.

Also, in the future when the R7 construction is finished (connecting BA-Dunajska Streda-Velky Krtis-Lucenec), KE-BA will be 380km on R7+R2 (but this will not happen in the next 20-30years).

So, for passenger cars, it will again make sense to use the Slovak R1+R2 to go KE-BA once most of it is finished (R1 will be done in 2011, the rest who knows when...). But, for Kosice-Wien or Kosice-to-anywhere-further-west, the highway via BP will be hard to beat. Moreover, in this whole discussion we are forgetting the fact that the Slovak government pretends that the highway via ZILINA is there to connect KE & BA which is COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS.

Last edited by DrX; December 16th, 2009 at 02:37 PM.
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Old December 16th, 2009, 12:11 PM   #1060
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Hungarian vignette fees (cenverted to EUR):
D2 (3,5-7,5 t): 10 EUR (1 day), 25 EUR (1 week), 50 EUR (1 month) or 400 EUR (1 year)
D3 (7,5-12,0 t): 10/40/70/590 EUR
D4 (12,0+ t): 10/50/85/735 EUR
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