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Old December 17th, 2009, 12:37 AM   #1061
DrX
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Thanks. I think that's even now 50% cheaper than in Slovakia (the article says that the cost in Slovakia is 907EUR/year, not including VAT). So, I think the choice will be really simple.

Interestingly, Slovakia also has the most expensive railways in Europe (see for example here). So, I really wonder how we want to be the country that connects the east and west of Europe?!?!

Last edited by DrX; December 17th, 2009 at 12:51 AM.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 08:48 PM   #1062
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This is not exactly related to the highways and motorways, but a good news for Bratislava anyway.

Bratislava has the best pedestrian crossing in Europe. Research has been performed by FIA in 31 European cities from 22 countries, total 310 crossings have been evaluated. In top 10 of ped. crossings there are two from our capital.

Ranking:
1. Bratislava Klemensova x Dostojevského rad
2. London Charing Cross Road
3. Munich Brunnstrasse x Kreuzstrasse
4. Munich Ledererstrasse x Orlandostrasse
5. Strasbourg Rue du Noyer x Rue du Vieux Marché aux Vins
6. Vienna Mariahilfer strasse x Neubaugasse
7. Dubrovník Andrije Hebranga x Čilipska
8. Strasbourg Rue de Sébastopol x Quai Kléber
9. Strasbourg Quai Kellermann x Pont de Paris
10. Bratislava Štúrova x Dunajská

Source:
http://auto.idnes.cz/nejnebezpecnejs...1_automoto_fdv

Last edited by Timoth12; December 17th, 2009 at 09:00 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 11:52 PM   #1063
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Originally Posted by DrX View Post
Qwert, I don't know what exactly the vignette rules are in Hungary. But, if they are similar to what is currently in Slovakia, then the costs will be dramatically different. As was stated here, for Slovak transportation companies, the cost of yearly use of the Žilina-Bratislava highway will increase 18-fold. For Košice, being twice as far from Bratislava, this means that compared to the current flat yearly fee, the cost for the same use will increase 36-FOLD!!!! Moreover, most of the way they will still have to go on regular roads (R2 Kosice-Zvolen). So, it is completely ridiculous to claim that the cost will be similar (except if you think like the Slovak government and claim that the cost of PPP projects, which is 13-times more expensive than regular construction, is a good deal).
It will be more expensive, road maintenance and construction is expensive too. But, in the end higher costs will pay final consumers not transport companies. Nowadays prices of vignettes for trucks are ridiculously low (€ 907 a year for 40 t truck is nothing) that's why the increase will be "so big." If Hungary has even more ridiculous prices of vignettes what should we do? Anyway, that estimate is provided by transport companies, so it's probably not the most reliable source.

It's funny people are complaining about high tolls but, if the government hadn't managed to introduce the electronic toll, the same people would have been complaining about how much money we lost.

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Originally Posted by DrX View Post
BTW, moreover, your argument hides the fact that the Zilina-Bratislava-focused Slovak government wants the trucks to drive Kosice-Bratislava via Zilina, which means that the costs will be the same even for gas when traveling via Zilina and via Budapest (~30km shorter, but up- and down-hills, difficult terrain etc.).
Again, get real. Government cannot care less if trucks BA - KE drive via Zvolen or Žilina or Budapest. How much trucks there is a day? 25 or 26? 99,99% of traffic in Slovakia isn't traffic Bratislava - Košice. Košice aren't the centre of the universe. Major logistic centres in Slovakia which create significant amount of truck transport are in Senec and Nové Mesto nad Váhom, if you travel wherever in Slovakia from Senec and Nové Mesto Hungary or any other country isn't an option for you. Also the regions with the biggest amount of industry which requires truck transport are Bratislava - Trnava - Nitra area and area along river Váh Trnava - Trenčín - Žilina - Martin.

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Finally, currently even the Czech truck drivers started protesting all the fees that Slovakia introduces with the tolls (among other things, renting some kind of a dash-board box). So, one really has to be blind (or from Zilina) to claim that the cost of a truck travel from KE to BA will be cheaper on Slovak (non-existing) highways than via Hungary.
Yes, Czechs will drive to Košice via Bratislava and Hungary.

I don't know what's you point. Should we cancel the toll or what?

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Originally Posted by DrX View Post
Interestingly, Slovakia also has the most expensive railways in Europe (see for example here). So, I really wonder how we want to be the country that connects the east and west of Europe?!?!
Actually, the article is about booming transshipping yard in Dobrá close to Ukrainian border. And fees for usage of railway (which are really one of the highest in EU) will be gradually lowered between 2009 and 2011 so they will be similar to neighbouring countries, maybe you didn't hear it
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Old December 18th, 2009, 01:22 PM   #1064
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Well, I don't know what's your point. Actually, it looks more and more clear to me that you are an lobbyist of (or connected to) one of the Slovak construction company (or paid directly by the ministry of transportation)!?! Otherwise it's hard to believe that you would defend the toll system for which:
1. there was a government-organized public procurement tender which was won by the bidder that offered the worst price (the highest costs to the state)
2. is clearly not competitive at all compared to the neighbors (HU or PL), in particular in terms of connecting the east and west of Europe
3. all the other bidders in the tender sued the decision that chose the toll operator
4. all media and independent observes were outraged by the choice (with the exception of the "Vyskumny ustav dopravny" state- and privately-funded transportation "research" company with name that makes it appear like it's a research organization, not a private body)
5. ministry of transportation has a history of corrupt decisions and extremely delayed and overpriced constructions. For some of them it currently has to return EU funds (see for example here).

As I said before, I am voicing the interests of 1/2 of Slovakia (NR, BB, KE, PO regions) which are systematically overlooked by the Zilina-Bratislava focused government, in particular in terms of infrastructure funding. So, when I talk about connecting Kosice-Bratislava, it's the official governmental facade ("WE WILL FINISH THE D1 BRATISLAVA-KOSICE HIGHWAY BY 2010") I am reacting to. But I'm actually talking about the non-existent connection of the east and west of Slovakia, which has been the "official" priority for the last 20 years and for which the only existing decent option is to travel via Hungary....
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Old December 18th, 2009, 06:52 PM   #1065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrX View Post
Well, I don't know what's your point. Actually, it looks more and more clear to me that you are an lobbyist of (or connected to) one of the Slovak construction company (or paid directly by the ministry of transportation)!?! Otherwise it's hard to believe that you would defend the toll system for which:
I wish you were right. Wake up and forget your conspiracy theories. If someone has different opinion than you it doesn't necessarily mean he is a Matrix system agent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrX View Post
1. there was a government-organized public procurement tender which was won by the bidder that offered the worst price (the highest costs to the state)
2. is clearly not competitive at all compared to the neighbors (HU or PL), in particular in terms of connecting the east and west of Europe
3. all the other bidders in the tender sued the decision that chose the toll operator
4. all media and independent observes were outraged by the choice (with the exception of the "Vyskumny ustav dopravny" state- and privately-funded transportation "research" company with name that makes it appear like it's a research organization, not a private body)
5. ministry of transportation has a history of corrupt decisions and extremely delayed and overpriced constructions. For some of them it currently has to return EU funds (see for example here).
I'm not saying anything about corrupted choice of toll operator. Everybody sees we lost about €170 million due to our corrupted government. But, it has nothing to do with the toll itself. If there had been chosen other operator it would have been cheaper for state, but prices for drivers would be pretty much the same.

And sorry, but, this east-west connection is some kind of competition? Majority of east-west transport goes via Poland and Hungary because it's better for the transporters, no matter what is the toll system in Slovakia. Should we offer our roads for free to steal traffic from Poland and Hungary? We have already enough of our own traffic. Even in the article posted by you spokesman of Hungarian Motorway Authority says without electronic toll Hungarian motorways will be damaged by trucks which in the meantime won't pay enough toll to maintain and reconstruct them. Austria, Czech Republic and Slovakia already have electronic toll, it's only logical Hungary and Poland will follow.

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Originally Posted by DrX View Post
As I said before, I am voicing the interests of 1/2 of Slovakia (NR, BB, KE, PO regions) which are systematically overlooked by the Zilina-Bratislava focused government, in particular in terms of infrastructure funding. So, when I talk about connecting Kosice-Bratislava, it's the official governmental facade ("WE WILL FINISH THE D1 BRATISLAVA-KOSICE HIGHWAY BY 2010") I am reacting to. But I'm actually talking about the non-existent connection of the east and west of Slovakia, which has been the "official" priority for the last 20 years and for which the only existing decent option is to travel via Hungary....


D1 will eventually connect Bratislava and Košice not in 2010, but it will. I will tell you little secret. Western Slovakia isn't only Bratislava and Eastern Slovakia isn't just Košice. Important is especially what is between these two cities. Maybe this little secret will help you to understand why we are building what we are building.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 10:02 PM   #1066
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R1 Lehôtka pod Brehmi - Šášovské Podhradie

Source: www.dialnice.info








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Old December 19th, 2009, 10:21 PM   #1067
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D1 Sverepec - Vrtižer

Overall view:

Source: http://www.cas.sk/clanok/143226/nad-...maji-2010.html

Older photos from www.dialnice.info









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Old December 19th, 2009, 10:25 PM   #1068
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A good old viaduc de Millau imitation. Pretty impressive, though it runs right through the city of Povazka Bystrica, I don't know if the local population likes it as well. But then again, PB is already considered one of the ugliest cities in Slovakia due to the absence of an historic old town.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 12:56 PM   #1069
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The competition for the contractor to construct a stretch of R4 expressway Košice-Milhosť/Hungarian border has started. The construction will be be funded from the EU Regional Development fund and the 16-km stretch of 4-lane expressway will be open in 2011 (and fully finished in 2013). The estimated cost is 70 mln EUR (but the ceiling for the tender is 117mln EUR).

This is a great news, especially given that the European Investment Bank is delaying their decision on lending Slovakia 1000 mil EUR for the 3300 mln EUR PPP project to build 75 km of the northern D1 highway between Ružomberok and Prešov.

Also note the outrageous differences in the costs of construction in the north and south of Slovakia. The government is really trying to get the country bankrupt on overpriced northern highway construction, while ignoring the cheap and easy solution of also constructing the shorter expressway in easier terrain in southern Slovakia. For the time being, European institutions are managing to delay this insanity. But for how long???
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 01:24 PM   #1070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
few days ago a lorry carrying an excavator has crashed into this bridge in construction, road under the bridge was closed for several hours, re-opened after checking that bridge isn't seriously damaged and won't collapse.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 11:53 PM   #1071
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Originally Posted by DrX View Post
The competition for the contractor to construct a stretch of R4 expressway Košice-Milhosť/Hungarian border has started. The construction will be be funded from the EU Regional Development fund and the 16-km stretch of 4-lane expressway will be open in 2011 (and fully finished in 2013). The estimated cost is 70 mln EUR (but the ceiling for the tender is 117mln EUR).

This is a great news, especially given that the European Investment Bank is delaying their decision on lending Slovakia 1000 mil EUR for the 3300 mln EUR PPP project to build 75 km of the northern D1 highway between Ružomberok and Prešov.

Also note the outrageous differences in the costs of construction in the north and south of Slovakia. The government is really trying to get the country bankrupt on overpriced northern highway construction, while ignoring the cheap and easy solution of also constructing the shorter expressway in easier terrain in southern Slovakia. For the time being, European institutions are managing to delay this insanity. But for how long???
So construction of 14 km long expressway in flat terrain is less expensive than construction and maintenance during 30 years of 75 km long motorway partially in mountains? I can hardly believe it!

In the meantime, construction of D1 feeder near Martin (future R3), part of delayed PPP project:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayllo View Post




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Old December 23rd, 2009, 02:08 AM   #1072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrX View Post

Also note the outrageous differences in the costs of construction in the north and south of Slovakia. The government is really trying to get the country bankrupt on overpriced northern highway construction, while ignoring the cheap and easy solution of also constructing the shorter expressway in easier terrain in southern Slovakia. For the time being, European institutions are managing to delay this insanity. But for how long???
Cheap and easy expressway through southern Slovakia would connect one unefficient communist farm, two abandoned villages and three very little populated cities with no industry at all.

What would be the point of that?
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 10:13 AM   #1073
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Overall view:


impozante!


(unfortunately the photo is too small... )
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 04:50 PM   #1074
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This crossing is a big waste of money. Povazska Bystrica has 42.000 inhabitans and three (?!) exits.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 05:08 PM   #1075
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That's nothing, you should look at Spain, some towns not bigger than 2.000 - 3.000 inhabitants can have 3 - 4 exits.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 05:35 PM   #1076
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Cheap and easy expressway through southern Slovakia would connect one unefficient communist farm, two abandoned villages and three very little populated cities with no industry at all.

What would be the point of that?
The easy southern expressway would be the optimum connection for the BA-Trnava-Nitra-Zvolen/BB-Kosice-Presov regions, i.e., 6 out of 8 regions of Slovakia (and all points within these regions), covering about 80% of it's population and about at least 75% of its industry. But, yes, it would not go through Jan Slota's Zilina, so that cannot happen!
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Old December 24th, 2009, 12:53 PM   #1077
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BA-Trnava-Nitra are already connected, Zvolen/BB will be connected soon.

Zilina, Martin and whole region of Povazie are one of the most industrial regions in Slovakia with one big car manufacturer and so many car's parts suppliers.
For Slovak economy is extremly important connect those cities in Povazie with BA and Trnava, where are other car manufacturers.

On the other hand, BB is the city where dog has died and in region between Zvolen and KE dog didn't die, only b/c there is no dog.
There's nothing.

So, could you tell me, please, what would be the point of running motorway through that region and why are you always yapping about Zilina?
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Old December 28th, 2009, 11:01 AM   #1078
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Quote:
460/110(average of 90 and 130)=4,1 h
450/130=3,5h
400/90=4,4h

Yes,I'm pretty sure we're the sorthest.
130 is maximal speed, not average. the reality is

northern road - 5 hrs and more
southern road - 4,5 hrs and more
hungarian road - like southern road

the big problem of the Sk toll system is too much roads with fees, cca 2.400 km motor/expressways but mostly I. class roads. (all SK I. class roads are cca 3.300 km) this roads have often bad quality and in spite of they (the trucks) have to pay. many truckers is going to bankrupt (economic crisis) and this is the next shock for them. of course they can increase their taxes and make inflation press.

toll system in this time is not because it´s equitable but because of get more money for paying ultra-expensive PPP next 30 years. for 52 km expressway we will pay 4 bil. € - that´s sure, and for another 100 km motorway another 15-20 bil. € - I hope this plan will fail.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 02:52 PM   #1079
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If the government didn`t include roads of class I, majority of trucks would skip using highways, just to save on money.

Which would be a disaster for safety on roads. Thus, it`s inevitable, that the toll has to be paid, as is the case in other countries in EU.

Did someone really think that SK wouldn`t impose a road toll ?

Of course, it`s true that the quality of network is inadequate, that`s a whole different beast, for sure.

Protectionism won`t get us anywhere, long-term.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 05:05 PM   #1080
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toll system is not cheap = trucks can except adequate quality, like anyone else in business or shopping etc.

solution is toll system on motorways/expressways and parallel I. class roads - only. like in czech republic.
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