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Old January 11th, 2010, 11:42 PM   #1141
Qwert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrX View Post
Are you really so stupid? I know you aren't - you're just a lobbyist. But, for the rest of the readers a clarification regarding your last comment: For the same money as we are now going to spend to construct 50km of R1 via PPP, we could have constructed 50km of R1+150km of R2, basically solving the problem of the southern highway connection!!! And, that doesn't even count using the EU funds! I.e., using EU funding, we could now continue developing our highway network, eg, on the Kosice-Michalovce-UA stretch!!!!
I'm pretty stupid if I argue with you. Well, last try. I support construction of motorways and expressways. I support construction of the sections which I think are useful. IMO the most necessary sections should be built ASAP. Stuff like R4 Košice - Hungary or D1 Košice - Ukraine can wait for couple of years. I think that the biggest priorities for upcoming years are D1 all the way from Bratislava to Bidovce near Košice including upgrade of Bratislava - Trnava on 2x3, R1 all the way from Trnava to Banská Bystrica and D4 southern section between D2 and D1. Then there are secondary priorities like some sections of D3, R2 Trenčín - Prievidza, Zvolen - Lovinobaňa, Ožďany - Figa and tunnel Soroška (both 2x1). Then northern part of R3 as 2x1, entire R5 which will be 2 km long, R7 Bratislava - Dunajská Streda. After these sections there should be built D1 from Košice to Ukraine, remaining sections of D3, R2 Prievidza - R3, remaining sections of R3 all the way from Polish border to Žiar nad Hronom, R4 Košice - Hungary and northern bypass of Prešov, entire R6 and entire R8. There are still some missing sections, but we are already in quite distant future.

Of course, due to several reasons actual construction won't follow my schedule. These reasons are either political (e.g. R4 Košice - HU is purely political, current PM will strongly support construction of R8 and so on) or technical (e.g. D4 which should be the top priority isn't prepared so there will be plenty of less important sections which will be built sooner), but at least D1 and R1 are really U/C (in case of D1 two important sections: bypass of Žilina and bypass of Prešov still aren't U/C).

We may discuss whether it should be fund by PPP, eurofunds, state budget or NDS funds. PPP is indeed expensive and in some cases it's really questionable which sections should be built this way, but we cannot afford to built cheap and useless roads instead of expensive, but really needed ones.

This is my opinion, I'm sure you will disagree, for you the biggest priories are R2 Košice - Zvolen, R4 Košice - HU and D1 Košice - Ukraine, well, if you think so...

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But, as I wrote before, it's pretty clear to me that you Qwert are directly funded by either one of the construction companies, or one of the governmental parties. So, go back to defending the new TOLL system before the prime minister gets more manure dumped in front of his office in appreciation of this successful project! Well, I guess it's too late. Fico just held a press conference on which he acknowledged that that the TOLL SYSTEM was botched, and he partially delayed its implementation (on the 1st class roads) and introduced other modifications.

I wish you were right. Next time I will be Reptilian. Actually, I'm a student who is paid mostly by my parents who are neither Reptilians (at least I hope so) nor employees of some construction company and members of any party. I know it's hard to believe, but but if somebody in internet forum doesn't agree with you it doesn't mean that person is a secret agent. I wonder who pays you for spamming several forums with your demagogy.

I fully support strike of transport companies because first days of operation of the electronic toll system showed there are tons of bugs and mistakes and it requires time to solve them. I don't know why you supposed that I'm against them?

Last edited by Qwert; January 12th, 2010 at 02:04 AM.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:57 AM   #1142
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Due to the mountainous areas, and the consequently high construction cost, the purchasing power of the Slovakian road budget is much lower than the Polish or Hungarian road budget. You can build less with the same budget.
This is completely understood. But I wouldn't say that terrain on average is much heavier than in Slovenia or in Croatia.

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For instance, the average pricetag of a Spanish Autovía is € 6 million per kilometer. But I've seen projects as low as 2 or 3 million per kilometer. Similar motorways in the Netherlands are quickly over 15 - 20 million per kilometer.
Average price for taking whole Slovenian motorway network is around 10 mio EUR/km so they are not cheap. What is the average price in Slovakia?
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:52 AM   #1143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pijanec View Post
This is completely understood. But I wouldn't say that terrain on average is much heavier than in Slovenia or in Croatia.
its not about terrain only but biggest difference is Croatian model for building of highways - not allowed within EU and Slovakian way of financing highways which must take into consideration EU rules. (is mentioned few post above already...so try read it and dont ask twice same )

Slovenia was richer country since independence and even before that with different political face of communist system than in Czechoslovakia therefore in early 90s had money to build infrastructure and economy. Whereas Slovakia just gained independence + started privatization of whole economy and had to restart central planed economy intro market economy.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 10:13 AM   #1144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pijanec View Post
This is completely understood. But I wouldn't say that terrain on average is much heavier than in Slovenia or in Croatia.



Average price for taking whole Slovenian motorway network is around 10 mio EUR/km so they are not cheap. What is the average price in Slovakia?
for example, 10 mio EUR/km is price of Mengusovce-Poprad on D1. There are also parts which cost about 30 mio EUR/ km.

Somebody can know more about price of Slovak motorways. But anyway, they aren`t cheap.
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Last edited by seem; January 12th, 2010 at 06:30 PM.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:58 PM   #1145
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This is completely understood. But I wouldn't say that terrain on average is much heavier than in Slovenia or in Croatia.
It's not only about terrain. When our officials are asked why we have less motorways than Croatia they usually reply Slovakia has much more strict norms than Croatia or even Austria and very difficult geology. IMO these are just stupid excuses. The main reason is money. Slovakia isn't able to distribute money the same way as Croatia so there is lack of them for motorways. There are also some other reasons of the slow construction: problems with land ownership, slow planning, NIMBYs and so on, but this is in every country.

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Average price for taking whole Slovenian motorway network is around 10 mio EUR/km so they are not cheap. What is the average price in Slovakia?
I haven't seen any reliable information about average cost in Slovakia.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:48 PM   #1146
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Originally Posted by pijanec View Post
This is completely understood. But I wouldn't say that terrain on average is much heavier than in Slovenia or in Croatia,
Don't agree that. There are some serious geographical challenges in northern part of Slovakia and cities are usually blocking narrow valleys with pretty dense population in strategic points (Žilina, Považska Bystrica, Martin, Ružomberok) - means more possibilities for land disputes - something, that Slovenia or Croatia don't have. Also geology is much more diverse than in both countries.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 07:03 PM   #1147
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Don't agree that. There are some serious geographical challenges in northern part of Slovakia and cities are usually blocking narrow valleys with pretty dense population in strategic points (Žilina, Považska Bystrica, Martin, Ružomberok) - means more possibilities for land disputes - something, that Slovenia or Croatia don't have. Also geology is much more diverse than in both countries.
Some regions in Slovakia are pretty densely inhabited and often there are necessary expensive constructions to bypass built-up area, but construction should be faster anyway.

Population density:
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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:05 PM   #1148
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Are there traffic fatality stats for Slovakia in 2009 yet?
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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:40 PM   #1149
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Are there traffic fatality stats for Slovakia in 2009 yet?
I've found only statistics from 1 January 2009 to 30 November 2009. Link in Slovak: http://www.minv.sk/?dopravne_nehody

According to them during 11 months of 2009 there was killed 322 persons.

Statistics for entire 2009 should be available soon.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 07:43 PM   #1150
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Motorway D1 - Sverepec-Vrtižer - 9.1. 2010 - 10:xx

source and full size- http://dialnicapb.blogspot.com/2010/...nuar-2010.html













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Old January 14th, 2010, 03:03 PM   #1151
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Are there traffic fatality stats for Slovakia in 2009 yet?
I've posted them in roadside rest area on 6th January, they are for 2009 until 20th december, so max. +10-15 more
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Old January 14th, 2010, 06:57 PM   #1152
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The Ministry of Transportation just passed and published a decree that excludes all 1st class roads from the list of toll roads in Slovakia until Jan 31, 2009. See http://www.zbierka.sk/zz/predpisy/de...54&Rocnik=2010
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Old January 16th, 2010, 03:01 PM   #1153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
I've found only statistics from 1 January 2009 to 30 November 2009. Link in Slovak: http://www.minv.sk/?dopravne_nehody

According to them during 11 months of 2009 there was killed 322 persons.

Statistics for entire 2009 should be available soon.
full statistics: http://www.minv.sk/?statistika-dopravnej-nehodovosti

348 persons were killed in 2009, compared to 558 in 2008 and 627 in 2007. Let's hope it will get even better...
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Old January 17th, 2010, 04:15 AM   #1154
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That's great, I'm sure it will continue to drop as Slovakia expands it's road network to motorway/expressway standards.
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Old January 17th, 2010, 11:01 AM   #1155
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It's not all about expressways. I think that significant amount of lives were saved because of more strict rules. Speed limit in urban areas was changed from 60 to 50km/h, cyclists must wear helmets outside urban areas etc...
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Old January 17th, 2010, 07:39 PM   #1156
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I just calculated the Emyto truck toll in Slovakia is quite expensive. A trip from Bratislava to Kosice via D1 costs € 87 one way for a euro 4 5-axle truck. On the other hand, a Hungarian D4 category Matrica for 1 day is € 10.
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Old January 17th, 2010, 10:06 PM   #1157
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I just calculated the Emyto truck toll in Slovakia is quite expensive. A trip from Bratislava to Kosice via D1 costs € 87 one way for a euro 4 5-axle truck. On the other hand, a Hungarian D4 category Matrica for 1 day is € 10.
It's pretty expensive not only when compared to vignette system in other countries, but also when compared to electronic toll systems in neighbouring Austria and Czech Republic. As a small compensation government decided to decrease fuel taxes for diesel so price of one litre will decrease from 1.141 € to 1.007 €, but prices in shops will probably rise due to the toll anyway.
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Old January 17th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #1158
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Actually, Austria is far more expensive (€ 0,33 per km, regardless of emission class). 450 km in Austria would cost € 148,50, as opposed to € 87 in Slovakia.

Nothing beats Switzerland though, tolls can be as high as € 0,68 per km for the regular full-size truck. 450 km in Switzerland would cost € 306.

German truck toll is cheaper than in Slovakia at € 0,15 per km. The Czech premid system is comparable to Germany, so yes, Slovakia is quite expensive compared to most countries, except for the anti-economic growth countries that are called Austria and Switzerland.
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Old January 17th, 2010, 10:25 PM   #1159
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when did SK left vignette system for trucks? i remember it costed 11€ or 300SKK per day
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Old January 17th, 2010, 10:42 PM   #1160
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I assume we're looking for something more sophisticated than "money" ?
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