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Old January 20th, 2010, 12:13 PM   #1181
gmbh
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Slovakia has 522 so the difference is 58 km in favour of Czech Republic, which is after all richer country. On the other hand, as I've said in Czech Republic there's about 200 km of motorways in terrible shape.
so the difference is 58 km, and hungary (10 mil. inhabitans) has 1.002/1,85 = 540 km, the difference is only 18 km in 2009, ....but there are longer half profiles, and I. class roads. in case of hungary 122 km (longer sections) halfprofiles and 62 km 4 lane I. class roads. in slovakia I don´t heard about 4 lane roads with full speed 100-110 (I don´t know exactly if kosice bypass is expresway or 4 lane road called expressway) and longer half profile is only figa-tornala (14 km)

in my assessment of 1/3 of population I numbered a part of ZA county.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1018071

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if D1 is finished from BA to Kosice , what will be that percentage look like ?
I agree with Qwert, it's difficult to say. but I have to remark, now is u/c only expressway to central Sk. I don´t agree with Qwert in case of towns, we have to make a list of countys and maybe districts. slovak countys are very big and when D1+R1 will finished it doesn´t mean that whole nitra, b. bystrica, kosice and presov countys will have connection .... and we return to the first section of my article - quality of connection from districts to motorways by I. class roads - it´s not a different story.

I think the percentage in slovakia will be 45-50 in two years - very few. if D1 will be finished between 2015-20 the percentage will be comparable with CZ/HU but

1/ 5-10 years later
2/ with high tolls
3/ with worse accessability (eastern part of kosice, presov, trencin countys and southern part of nitra, b. bystrica countys - cca 20% of inhabitans)
4/ not solved nord-south connection in central part of Sk.

ps.
Quote:
17 Komárno 36279 (it has already access to Hungarian M1)
I don´t know if I should laugh or cry. it´s "success" like decreasing of unemployment when 200.000 person went to abroad.

Last edited by gmbh; January 20th, 2010 at 12:19 PM.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 02:03 AM   #1182
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Originally Posted by i15 View Post
It's not all about expressways. I think that significant amount of lives were saved because of more strict rules. Speed limit in urban areas was changed from 60 to 50km/h, cyclists must wear helmets outside urban areas etc...
Regarding cyclists, this is pretty unique rule in Europe. Especially because there is no scientific consensus about bicycle helmets. I believe it will statistically not lower number of deaths, like is the case in Australia.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 03:11 AM   #1183
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I think it's more because of current crisis. Less trucks on the roads and less frequently. On narrow roads in SLovakia it makes sense. The second reson might be mild winter last year or sth like that. The number of deaths also rapidly decreased in the Czech lands.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:51 AM   #1184
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I believe they decreased everywhere in Europe.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 10:13 AM   #1185
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Yep, most countries recorded 50-year lows.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:43 PM   #1186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
so the difference is 58 km, and hungary (10 mil. inhabitans) has 1.002/1,85 = 540 km, the difference is only 18 km in 2009, ....but there are longer half profiles, and I. class roads. in case of hungary 122 km (longer sections) halfprofiles and 62 km 4 lane I. class roads. in slovakia I don´t heard about 4 lane roads with full speed 100-110 (I don´t know exactly if kosice bypass is expresway or 4 lane road called expressway) and longer half profile is only figa-tornala (14 km)
We were talking about motorways and expressways, right? Well, I briefly counted there's about 50 - 55 km of 2x2 1st and 2nd class roads in Slovakia outside built-up area (thus excluding 2x2 streets or Košice inner ring) and more will come soon e.g. I/67 Poprad - Kežmarok. But, you are right, speed limit there is usually lower than 110 or 100 km/h. IMO length of national roads in Slovakia is sufficient. Problem is their quality, but there are hundreds of kilometres of C 11,5 roads which have the same width as 2x1 expressways, the only difference is majority of crossings there aren't ground separated.

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Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
I agree with Qwert, it's difficult to say. but I have to remark, now is u/c only expressway to central Sk. I don´t agree with Qwert in case of towns, we have to make a list of countys and maybe districts. slovak countys are very big and when D1+R1 will finished it doesn´t mean that whole nitra, b. bystrica, kosice and presov countys will have connection .... and we return to the first section of my article - quality of connection from districts to motorways by I. class roads - it´s not a different story.

I think the percentage in slovakia will be 45-50 in two years - very few. if D1 will be finished between 2015-20 the percentage will be comparable with CZ/HU but

1/ 5-10 years later
2/ with high tolls
3/ with worse accessability (eastern part of kosice, presov, trencin countys and southern part of nitra, b. bystrica countys - cca 20% of inhabitans)
4/ not solved nord-south connection in central part of Sk.
You cannot expect D1 and R1 will serve all districts in Slovakia. That's why there will be build also other motorways and expressways while these two will be U/C. You cannot also expect there will be motorway or expressway in every district. Plenty of them have less than 30,000 inhabitants.

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Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
ps.

I don´t know if I should laugh or cry. it´s "success" like decreasing of unemployment when 200.000 person went to abroad.
I don't get it? Should I ignore there's M1? Or should we built special motorway from Bratislava to Komárno to make you laugh?

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yep, most countries recorded 50-year lows.
Which means there were probably introduced new statistical methods.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:45 AM   #1187
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You cannot expect D1 and R1 will serve all districts in Slovakia.
infrastructure is not only 150 km overpriced motor/expressways. in this districts lives about 20% inhabitans.

and I forget number 5) bypass of capital.

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Should I ignore there's M1?
you have to ignore it when we talk about slovak motorways.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 08:28 PM   #1188
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D1 Hričovské Podhradie - Dubná Skala, 3rd PPP project

Contract about third PPP project - 30 km long motorway D1 Hričovské Podhradie - Dubná Skala (bypass of Žilina) which includes more then 7 km long tunnel Višňové was signed today. Works should start in 10 days. Main part of construction will start in May 2010 when all needed funds will be secured. Price of the construction will be 1.99 billion € and government will pay during 30 years concession 8.55 billion €.

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Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
infrastructure is not only 150 km overpriced motor/expressways. in this districts lives about 20% inhabitans.

and I forget number 5) bypass of capital.
157 km. D1 and R1 won't solve all our problems, but they will provide at least basic access to capital for all regions. Of course, there will be still some districts from where you will have to drive quite some time to reach them. In Hungary or Czech Republic, not to mention Poland there's plenty of such districts or regions too. We cannot built entire our network within 5 years.

Problem of D4 is that it's not prepared. If it was prepared like D1 or R1 it would be already U/C as a 4th PPP project. But, it would be pretty stupid to delay construction of D1 and R1 because there's unprepared D4, don't you think so?

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Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
you have to ignore it when we talk about slovak motorways.
Slovakia isn't an island. I cannot ignore there's motorway connection between Bratislava and Komárno (well, there is 2x1 M15).
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 08:39 PM   #1189
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€ 67 million per kilometer? Phew!
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 08:54 PM   #1190
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
€ 67 million per kilometer? Phew!
For huge bridges, tunnels and cuts and especially more than 7 km long double-tubed tunnel... It's not that much.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:01 PM   #1191
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
€ 67 million per kilometer? Phew!
Only € 66.3 million.

It's a lot but as mapman:cz said this section includes three tunnels together 10.5 km long and 6.3 km of bridges and numerous cuts and embankments.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 02:45 AM   #1192
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D1 Jablonov - Behárovce bridge

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Old January 25th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #1193
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157 km. D1 and R1 won't solve all our problems, but they will provide at least basic access to capital for all regions. Of course, there will be still some districts from where you will have to drive quite some time to reach them. In Hungary or Czech Republic, not to mention Poland there's plenty of such districts or regions too. We cannot built entire our network within 5 years.
20 % of inhabintans is more than "some districts". for this regions D1 and R1 don´t provide basic access, because either problems and quality of I. class roads from M/Eways to this regions will not solved. btw. general director of national motorway co. lists the general M/Eway network, D1, R1, D3, R2, R5....and I could add eastern part of D4.

http://www.ndsas.sk/monitoring-medii/12326s?prm3=23631

we talk about year 2015 when hu/cz probably will have connections of all regions.

another problem will be tolls, 20 bil. € for PPP payments will express in high fees for trucks as well as private cars and in financials for roads after 2015. for many people will this motorways useless. nowadays we hear about protests from ZA and PO region - hight fess and toll system on I. c. roads makes over-price for export-oriented companies. nowhere in europe is in toll system more I. class roads (cca 1.500) a less M/Eways (more than 500 km) on in Sk ...and it will not changed when we will have problably 750-800 km M/Eways in 2015.

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But, it would be pretty stupid to delay construction of D1 and R1 because there's unprepared D4, don't you think so?
I don't wrote about delaying of another motorways. I just compared cz/hu with sk also in case of bypass of capital city....and you are like prime minister (from your region) - he cannot accept loss...5 points I wrote.

Quote:
Slovakia isn't an island. I cannot ignore there's motorway connection between Bratislava and Komárno
but thats not success of Sk motorway contruction...and btw. more than 100 years old danube bridge is unsufficient, so we cannot talk about good connection from komarno to M1.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 07:56 PM   #1194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marek.kvackaj View Post
D1 Jablonov - Behárovce bridge

I like that bridge although those arches are just decoration without practical use. More pictures:






Source: www.dialnice.info
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Old January 25th, 2010, 07:56 PM   #1195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
20 % of inhabintans is more than "some districts". for this regions D1 and R1 don´t provide basic access, because either problems and quality of I. class roads from M/Eways to this regions will not solved. btw. general director of national motorway co. lists the general M/Eway network, D1, R1, D3, R2, R5....and I could add eastern part of D4.

http://www.ndsas.sk/monitoring-medii/12326s?prm3=23631

we talk about year 2015 when hu/cz probably will have connections of all regions.
What do you want? Should we built motorway to every district within one year? Hungary, Czech Republic and Poland don't have that and won't have that also in 2015. There's plenty of problems concerning our road infrastructure, but you cannot expect miracles. It's easy to criticise, but what solution do you offer?

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Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
another problem will be tolls, 20 bil. € for PPP payments will express in high fees for trucks as well as private cars and in financials for roads after 2015. for many people will this motorways useless. nowadays we hear about protests from ZA and PO region - hight fess and toll system on I. c. roads makes over-price for export-oriented companies. nowhere in europe is in toll system more I. class roads (cca 1.500) a less M/Eways (more than 500 km) on in Sk ...and it will not changed when we will have problably 750-800 km M/Eways in 2015.
PPP projects will be paid from state budget from Ministry of Transportation's chapter. Toll is income of National Motorway Company a.s. (NDS) which is joint-stock company owned by state, but its incomes aren't incomes of state budget, only its profit may be income of state budget, but it obviously won't have profit for quite some years. There is no direct correlation between PPP projects and toll. Toll incomes will be barely enough for maintenance of roads administered by NDS and construction of some cheaper sections.

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Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
I don't wrote about delaying of another motorways. I just compared cz/hu with sk also in case of bypass of capital city....and you are like prime minister (from your region) - he cannot accept loss...5 points I wrote.
OK, so this is my respond on your five points:

1/ 5-10 years later - Let's rather stick to 5 years, but you're right. However, do you think there was possibility to built significantly more motorways let's say in last 10 years which would cover more inhabitants?

2/ with high tolls - Electronic toll will be sooner or later introduced in all EU countries and who said roads are cheap?

3/ with worse accessability (eastern part of kosice, presov, trencin countys and southern part of nitra, b. bystrica countys - cca 20% of inhabitans) - Like if there weren't similar regions also in PL, HU and CZ and there will be plenty of them also in 5 years.

4/ not solved nord-south connection in central part of Sk. - Who said there won't be built also some north-south connections? (BTW, it's north not nord). We already have basically north-south connection Žilina - Bratislava and soon also connection of Bratislava and Ostrava/Katowice via Žilina will be improved. Also north-south connection in Eastern Slovakia (E371) will be improved. Problem is mostly north-south connection in Central Slovakia, but there are quite big mountains which PL, HU and CZ don't have.

5) bypass of capita - AFAIK Prague and Warsaw doesn't have motorway bypasses as well.

BTW, please don't compare me to our PM, I'm mannerly and polite person and I'm not criminal.

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Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
but thats not success of Sk motorway contruction...and btw. more than 100 years old danube bridge is unsufficient, so we cannot talk about good connection from komarno to M1.
If you travel from Szczecin to Wroclaw, it's better to drive via Germany. Sopron or Szombathely have better access to Austrian than to Hungarian motorway network, area around Cheb has better access to German than to Czech network, if you want to get from Vienna to Innsbruck you must drive via Germany. Should I continue? That bridge is old, but it works and traffic is fluent there.

Last edited by Qwert; January 25th, 2010 at 09:26 PM.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 09:04 PM   #1196
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The second reson might be mild winter last year or sth like that.
Nope.

mild winter causes MORE death, beacuse the traffic volume and traffic speed is higher compared to harsh winters...

maybe it seems to be a paradox...
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Old January 25th, 2010, 09:10 PM   #1197
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Nope.

mild winter causes MORE death, beacuse the traffic volume and traffic speed is higher compared to harsh winters...

maybe it seems to be a paradox...
well, it seems so. but you are probably right here
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Old January 25th, 2010, 09:16 PM   #1198
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Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
I like that bridge although those arches are just decoration without practical use. More pictures:
Better than a dull viaduct, right?
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Old January 25th, 2010, 09:23 PM   #1199
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Better than a dull viaduct, right?
Officials say it should recall Gothic jewels of Spiš region so it's supposed to be Gothic style motorway (maybe they will install there also some gargoyles). But, they probably forgot Gothic style used pointed arches.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 09:30 PM   #1200
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yep, most countries recorded 50-year lows.
what is the possible reason?

in hungary there was a significant juristical change in 2008: they made it almost impossible to avoid speeding fines and they rose the fines tenfold...

I think in hungary this was the main reason...
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