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Old February 7th, 2010, 11:05 PM   #1281
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobek_Azbest View Post
8.5bn € for the construction and 30 years of maintenance?! Holy crap!
It's not the end of the world if you consider that € 2 billion is for construction, maybe another € 500 million for interest, and that leaves you € 200 million per year in maintenance, write-off and operational costs.

My guess is the Slovak road budget for the next 30 years is also close to € 60 - 80 billion.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 01:39 AM   #1282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post
All parts are actually under construction, but without bypass of Prešov. I realy don`t know why this section is not part of PPP project.

Btw, there is still missing second tube of tunnel Branisko. You can see that on a map.

Vivat overpriced D1 PPP project ZA-KE!
Construction of the bypass of Prešov should start this year as well and it should be finished in 2014, but seeing is believing. In the meantime 2x2 throughpass through Prešov is U/C, it should be finished sooner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABRob View Post
2 billion!? A little much!?

How long is that section?
A 7 to 8 km 2-tube tunnel cost around 200 and 300 million EUR. Any other big works there?
As seem said, it's not only the tunnel. It's 30 km long section through mountains. On the other hand, yes, it's overpriced. In 2006 it was supposed to cost 40 billion old good Slovak koruna which is in current exchange rate 1.33 billion €. It's price without feeder Lietavská Lúčka, but that short feeder cannot make that big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobek_Azbest View Post
8.5bn € for the construction and 30 years of maintenance?! Holy crap!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's not the end of the world if you consider that € 2 billion is for construction, maybe another € 500 million for interest, and that leaves you € 200 million per year in maintenance, write-off and operational costs.

My guess is the Slovak road budget for the next 30 years is also close to € 60 - 80 billion.
The price obviously contains construction costs, interest, maintenance (they have to buy vehicles and other stuff to maintain it, pay employees and so on) and general reconstruction after 30 years which almost means construction of new motorway. But, anyway, it could be cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Hello Slovakia.
I will go on Tuesday in Slovakia from Budapest - Vac - Sahy - Zvolen - Banska Bystrica - Ruzomberok - Liptovsky Mikulas.
How is the road? Which is the speed limit in the urban area? 50 or 60 km/h? Thank you.
From Šahy to Zvolen road is far from perfect, but it's quite OK, from Zvolen to Banská Bystrica there's expressway so you shouldn't expect some difficulties. The worst part may be road between Banská Bystrica and Ružomberok - (in)famous mountain pass Donovaly. I've said may be, because it depends on the weather. But, on Tuesday there should be no snowing. Then there's motorway from Ružomberok to Liptovský Mikuláš so that shouldn't be problem.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 01:46 AM   #1283
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Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
In the meantime 2x2 throughpass through Prešov is U/C, it should be finished sooner.
Do you have some map or could you describe where this is U/C?
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Old February 8th, 2010, 01:47 AM   #1284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's not the end of the world if you consider that € 2 billion is for construction, maybe another € 500 million for interest, and that leaves you € 200 million per year in maintenance, write-off and operational costs.

My guess is the Slovak road budget for the next 30 years is also close to € 60 - 80 billion.
More realistic would be this:
construction: 1. billion
maintenance: 50 million per year
repaving afer 30 years: 100 million

makes it 2.6 billion...
Including "interests" 3 billion would be a fair price.

In other words: It will be a 5.9 billion profit...
Makes it 196,6 million profit per year.
And that means an annual rate of return of 7.5%...
Quite a good invest...
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Old February 8th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #1285
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Originally Posted by rarse View Post
Do you have some map or could you describe where this is U/C?
I think this explains it. You can see planned motorway bypass (orange) and new throughpass (yellow).


Source: www.dialnice.info

There were big problems since plenty of houses had to be demolished, but it's solved now. Actually, it was already partially finished in 2002:










Works are going on, but they are obviously limited due to the weather:





Source: www.vyvlastnenie.sk

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABRob View Post
More realistic would be this:
construction: 1. billion
maintenance: 50 million per year
repaving afer 30 years: 100 million

makes it 2.6 billion...
Including "interests" 3 billion would be a fair price.

In other words: It will be a 5.9 billion profit...
Makes it 196,6 million profit per year.
And that means an annual rate of return of 7.5%...
Quite a good invest...
I'm afraid this is not realistic. In 2006 construction cost was supposed to be 1.33 billion €, now it's 2010 and it will be finished in 2014 so the price for construction is definitely higher than 1 billion €. I'm not able to judge costs of maintenance, but general reconstruction after 30 years will cost much more then 100 million €. It won't be just repaving.

You have to take into account also inflation during 30 years. During this period Slovakia will pay to the concessionaire about 8.5 billion €, but in "2010 euro" it's only 3.654 billion €. At least if I can believe to analysis by non-government (read anti-government) institute INEKO (in Slovak): http://blog.etrend.sk/inekomenty/201...lh-nad-50-hdp/
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Old February 8th, 2010, 10:47 AM   #1286
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I would say pretty much the contrary, most important is motorway connection among regions. International traffic near borders has low density.
most of traffic is from villages to cityes or traffic between 2 towns in the same region. motorways aren´t built for this fraffic it´s only their secondary beneficiary.

motorways mainly have to make connections from regions to important cityes and aglomerations. this is the main function of them. in Sk it´s only southwest (bratislava, trnava, nitra regions) and MAYBE region of kosice, presov (eastern Sk.).
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Old February 8th, 2010, 01:37 PM   #1287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
I think this explains it. You can see planned motorway bypass (orange) and new throughpass (yellow).
Actually I had to rotate the image first to see the north - up But yes it explains it all, thanks.

Great photo report as well! Looks like a nice urban 2x2 road which will save Prešov center until 2014 when motorway bypass should be opened.

I see some industry buildings would have to be demolished as well (between the river and Budovatel'ská).

Will there be a roundabout at Košická, Švábska, Petrovianská and bypass meeting?

Quote:
In the meantime 2x2 throughpass through Prešov is U/C, it should be finished sooner.
Any date?

- - - - - - - -

I noticed that a lot of street lamps, fences etc. in Slovakia are yellow (just like they were in some parts of ex Yugoslavia).

I haven't noticed that color in Czech Republic.

And I also noticed red color at D1 - Bratislava airport exit.
If I remember I also noticed somewhere blue color in Slovakia.

In Slovenia for example, everything is in "original" metal color.
In Croatia, lots of blue color.
I think Germany and Austria is similar as Slovenia.

What do you guys think, should those colors have some psychological effect to drivers?
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Old February 8th, 2010, 01:46 PM   #1288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABRob View Post
More realistic would be this:
Don't worry, I agree with you, but I was trying to explain the huge investment. But I have seen similar figures for Romanian tunnel-motorways (A3 Bucuresti - Brasov).
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Old February 8th, 2010, 04:02 PM   #1289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarse View Post
Actually I had to rotate the image first to see the north - up But yes it explains it all, thanks.

Great photo report as well! Looks like a nice urban 2x2 road which will save Prešov center until 2014 when motorway bypass should be opened.

I see some industry buildings would have to be demolished as well (between the river and Budovatel'ská).

Will there be a roundabout at Košická, Švábska, Petrovianská and bypass meeting?

Any date?
I don't know what will that crossing look like. It should be put in use in 2011.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rarse View Post
I noticed that a lot of street lamps, fences etc. in Slovakia are yellow (just like they were in some parts of ex Yugoslavia).

I haven't noticed that color in Czech Republic.

And I also noticed red color at D1 - Bratislava airport exit.
If I remember I also noticed somewhere blue color in Slovakia.

In Slovenia for example, everything is in "original" metal color.
In Croatia, lots of blue color.
I think Germany and Austria is similar as Slovenia.

What do you guys think, should those colors have some psychological effect to drivers?
Well, I think they have all kind of colours, not only yellow, but it's quite common colour, you are right. Often they are painted with colours of municipality coat of arms, but often they are also metalic. Prešov's coat of arms is red and white though. In case of motorways colours depends on local motorway maintenance and service centre. Each has its own colour.

I don't think those colours have some important psychological effect, but especially during winter when everything's grey they could be useful to keep driver's attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Don't worry, I agree with you, but I was trying to explain the huge investment. But I have seen similar figures for Romanian tunnel-motorways (A3 Bucuresti - Brasov).
Similar to figures posted by ABRob or similar to official figures? I mean as everything in Slovakia also this PPP project is overpriced, I'm just curious how much.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 05:24 PM   #1290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Don't worry, I agree with you, but I was trying to explain the huge investment. But I have seen similar figures for Romanian tunnel-motorways (A3 Bucuresti - Brasov).
In Romania, the section Comarnic-Brasov (55km) with 15km of double tunnels, will cost 4.8billion euros(construction+operation and maintenance for 30 years). So it's a lower price than the Slovakian one.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 07:47 PM   #1291
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why are project overpriced?

- partly due political reason e.g. leading party within government SMER promised to build D1 highway till 2010 or 2011 but they failed. Now Slovaks (voters) are sensitive about this issue. SMER party going to build highway whatever costs.

-secondly world did hit housing/credit/financial crisis therefore banks do not going invest into these projects any-more for lack of own money or its not that appealing to them. Those reason lead banks charge high interests rates to this private financiered project secured with government bonds.

Well how to scrap contracts and give project to Chinese companies?
They are having interest to build highways and for highly competitive price - e.g. Poland its negotiating contract to build highway somewhere in Poland.. but again its take few years of negotiating and patience of voters(Slovaks) but voters(Slovaks) do not have patience anymore.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #1292
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accident in Sitina tunnel 11.02.2010 14 cars crashed, luckily no deads reported
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-G3uPui6As
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Old February 12th, 2010, 11:32 AM   #1293
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Seems to me that there was ice on the roadway. Plus people didn't keep enough distance.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 11:38 AM   #1294
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dunno.. highway in Bratislava is pretty good maintained during winter I think.. (comparing to other roads) it was 60km/h speed limit all day long on D1/D2 in Bratislava due to snow, so hard to say.. to me it looks like that people tought that they can drive faster and safer in "dry" tunnel
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Old February 12th, 2010, 02:07 PM   #1295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SureThing_II View Post
accident in Sitina tunnel 11.02.2010 14 cars crashed, luckily no deads reported
And the result of this accident:


http://spravy.pravda.sk/hromadna-hav...sk_regiony_p29

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Seems to me that there was ice on the roadway. Plus people didn't keep enough distance.
IMO it was combination of not keeping safe distance and high speed. Plenty of cars managed to stop, but they were hit by morons driving too fast behind them. On the other hand, I wonder why that first car crashed.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 02:36 PM   #1296
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Originally Posted by Qwert View Post


IMO it was combination of not keeping safe distance and high speed.
definitely, that is so obvious.80 km/h seems maybe too less for that place, but in those conditions it is appropriate.
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Old February 13th, 2010, 12:07 PM   #1297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Seems to me that there was ice on the roadway. Plus people didn't keep enough distance.
yes, you are right, there was ice without doubt (confirmed by author of next photos and by other people)

1st lady who caused whole accident, she panicked after she got breakaway and jumped on brake


romanian truck driver behind her


cars behind him


cars before 1st lady in opposite direction, you can see them on 1stphoto


funny fact - asian cars rule in Slovakia :-) (there are also some european, but mostly as company cars)

Last edited by Aan; February 13th, 2010 at 12:16 PM.
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Old February 13th, 2010, 02:04 PM   #1298
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yes, you are right, there was ice without doubt (confirmed by author of next photos and by other people)

1st lady who caused whole accident, she panicked after she got breakaway and jumped on brake
If the road is slippery best thing to in dangerous situation is to hit the brake with full power, that always helps. I wonder how some people got their driving licences.
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Old February 15th, 2010, 03:15 AM   #1299
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13.2.2010 R1-D1-D2

Was bit windy...

R1 Nitra -> exit Trnava





as I said.. only a little bit windy...








D1 Trnava-> Bratislava










D2 - exit Bratislava-Petržalka-Pečňa







copyright by MaMos
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Old February 15th, 2010, 12:34 PM   #1300
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Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
If the road is slippery best thing to in dangerous situation is to hit the brake with full power, that always helps. I wonder how some people got their driving licences.
IMHO easy braking is the solution,and leaving the steering wheel alone.
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