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Old February 27th, 2010, 09:15 PM   #2801
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That's good news! Only Ireland, the UK and Cyprus have yet to joing, but I guess that it will take some time I guess...
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Old February 27th, 2010, 10:02 PM   #2802
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They prolly won't be joining, but I guess it doesn't matter for the land border anyway... UK and Ireland have their own Common Travel Area.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 11:17 AM   #2803
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I think it is strange that there are countries within the EU that are not part of the Schengen area. It feels somewhat like "yeah we want to be part of the EU, but on our own conditions" ... well in that case, don't apply for the EU at all. The EU offers advantages, but every advantage comes necessarily as well with a disadvantage.

The UK and Ireland are somewhat "lucky", because of their geographic situation border control is a lot easier than on the European main land. Although I still keep asking myself the question: what happens if I take a canoe and peddle from Cap Grid Nez (France) to Folkstone (UK). Will UK border officers ask for my passport when arriving at the beach?
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Old February 28th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #2804
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I guess you would go to jail for ilegal entry in the UK.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 11:44 AM   #2805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crcorp View Post
I think it is strange that there are countries within the EU that are not part of the Schengen area. It feels somewhat like "yeah we want to be part of the EU, but on our own conditions" ... well in that case, don't apply for the EU at all. The EU offers advantages, but every advantage comes necessarily as well with a disadvantage.
I think it is probably because in 1973, when Ireland and the UK have joined the EU, no one was yet talking about a "Schengen space". I believe you cannot force a country to join Schengen space, it is a matter of will. But I agree with you, it might look a little strange or even unfriendly to remain isolated not only as an island but as a non-Schengen member too.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 11:45 AM   #2806
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I guess you would go to jail for ilegal entry in the UK.
With a Dutch (EU) passport... that would surprise me.

Anyhow, borders within the EU should only be maintained for purely administrative reasons (like borders between regions inside states) and not as a barrier to obstruct people from moving around.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 12:15 PM   #2807
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Some time ago I asked a police officer what if I try to cross the border between Romania and Hungary (both EU states) with my valid EU passport (or ID card) in my pocket on the field (or anywhere where isn't a border control point). He told me that I would go to jail for ilegal trespassing.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 12:29 PM   #2808
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^ Indeed, that's the law, but I doubt it would be put in practice. I believe they would only give you a very "generous" fine and then send you back to Romania.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 12:32 PM   #2809
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Quote:
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Anyhow, borders within the EU should only be maintained for purely administrative reasons (like borders between regions inside states) and not as a barrier to obstruct people from moving around.
In this day and age, I always feel border controls are an outdated fashion. Schengen and the euro was the best thing that happened for international traffic in the past 50 years.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 12:55 PM   #2810
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In this day and age, I always feel border controls are an outdated fashion. Schengen and the euro was the best thing that happened for international traffic in the past 50 years.
Qft.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 01:13 PM   #2811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Some time ago I asked a police officer what if I try to cross the border between Romania and Hungary (both EU states) with my valid EU passport (or ID card) in my pocket on the field (or anywhere where isn't a border control point). He told me that I would go to jail for ilegal trespassing.
That's just crazy ... is this a European law? For if it is, I should have gotten a lot of fines in my life :p. I lived a large part in my life in Maastricht (at several hundreds of metres of the Belgian border) and I crossed many times the border by bike in the forest or other non-controlled border crossings. I only once ran into a Walloon (French speaking) police control who asked me for my passport, but outside of that I never encountered any controls.

Perhaps as a result of the fact that the border between Romania and Hungary is not yet open for that long, that specific laws still apply here?
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Schengen and the euro was the best thing that happened for international traffic in the past 50 years.
Exactly. Especially for people living close to multiple borders. Before the Euro, I had different wallets for Dutch Guilders, Belgian Francs and German Marks... you can imagine the mess :p.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 01:42 PM   #2812
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AFAIK the Netherlands and Belgium have had some kind of treaty about border crossings before Schengen. So you probably didn't deserve a fine. Remember that Romania isn't in Schengen yet, so there is still passport/ID control on the Hungarian-Romanian border
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Old February 28th, 2010, 02:22 PM   #2813
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A common customs union was created in 1948 in the Benelux. The free travel of persons, goods and capital came into force in 1960.

So the Netherlands has no border controls with Belgium for 50 years now, although there may have been occasional checks to prevent smuggling. If I remember correctly, there is not a single motorway border crossing with Belgium that has signs of earlier border stations like you see on the border with Germany.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 02:48 PM   #2814
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There are no border stations, but over here there is a parking lot at the border on both sides of the motorway. I'm not sure if it was a border station before though, since this motorway was opened in 1971.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #2815
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That border crossing opened on 30 december 1971, so that is 11 years after the implementation of free travel.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 04:55 PM   #2816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Some time ago I asked a police officer what if I try to cross the border between Romania and Hungary (both EU states) with my valid EU passport (or ID card) in my pocket on the field (or anywhere where isn't a border control point). He told me that I would go to jail for ilegal trespassing.
The passage across Polish-Czech border, beyond the official border crossing, was convicted the fine 500 PLN (130 EUR) till the day 21 December 2007.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 06:31 PM   #2817
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The main reason the UK won't join Schengen is because of all the illegal immigrants trying to get into the UK via France. There are massive camps in France where they are all illegally camped out and then try to get across every night.

I'm certain that if this was resolved the UK would join.

Ireland can't join unless the UK does or it would have to set up a border with N Ireland.

Cyprus can't join until the north part of Cyprus is sorted out.

I think they're perfectly good reasons for UK, Ireland and Cyrpus to be out of it at the moment.

Last edited by havaska; February 28th, 2010 at 06:32 PM. Reason: typo
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Old February 28th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #2818
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Quote:
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The main reason the UK won't join Schengen is because of all the illegal immigrants trying to get into the UK via France. There are massive camps in France where they are all illegally camped out and then try to get across every night.

I'm certain that if this was resolved the UK would join.

Ireland can't join unless the UK does or it would have to set up a border with N Ireland.

Cyprus can't join until the north part of Cyprus is sorted out.

I think they're perfectly good reasons for UK, Ireland and Cyrpus to be out of it at the moment.
Very thorough explanations, thanks.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #2819
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The main reason the UK won't join Schengen is because of all the illegal immigrants trying to get into the UK via France. There are massive camps in France where they are all illegally camped out and then try to get across every night. [...]
It might be as you say. The most embarrasing moment of my life was at a French-British border control check in the Paris Nord Railway Station. I wanted to board the Eurostar from Paris to London and they checked my ID card and passport for about 10 minutes, asked me thousands of questions, had to show my returning ticket etc., while the others were checked for 10 seconds. I think I have to say 'thank you' to the romanian gypsies that made Romania famous accross UK and the rest of Europe.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 10:29 PM   #2820
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OMG! I plan to use the Eurostar this summer for my trip in the UK...
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