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Old March 2nd, 2010, 10:37 PM   #2841
ja_kubek2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havaska View Post
We can do what we want in our own country, and if we don't want to join Schengen why should we?
but why you don't want? in shengen zone we can travel without controls on a borders. It's one of the best thinks in EU. I heard, that some british people say, that EU is like a country, they don't want EU, some of them want to destroy EU. you told, that it isn't "Isolationist islander mentality". So what is it?
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Old March 4th, 2010, 10:38 PM   #2842
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A drive from Enschede (NL) to Gronau (D) this afternoon. It was quite dark already, so the quality is a bit disappointing. I also didn't notice that the dashboard was still visible until we reached the border. But anyway, a video is a video



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Old March 5th, 2010, 10:28 PM   #2843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
They are not interested in a compromise. Their refusal of Schengen is purely ideological, just like their refusal of the euro. It's the isolationist islander mentality that is displayed everyday in the Sun or the Daily Mail. Even their serious newspapers display that mentality (you only have to read the Daily Telegraph).
I do not pay any attention to the British press; none of it is politically neutral. It's not exactly isloationist either, it's just that most British think that everyone wants to move here!
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Old March 6th, 2010, 11:09 PM   #2844
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Belgian /Dutch border near Maastricht







Some images seen from Holland into Belgium
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Old March 6th, 2010, 11:14 PM   #2845
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Dutch-German border 1944/45



After liberating various friendly countries, the soldiers had to alter their mindset beyond this point.....
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Old March 6th, 2010, 11:27 PM   #2846
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1945-46, aftermath of war...





Kerkrade, on the border with Germany: the frontier was closed and families were cut, Kerkrade and Herzogenrath are in fact one city (and coal mining community until recently) but this fence cut it in two and families were separated. Now the border is completely open but only for EU-Europeans and people carrying Schengen visas and the right permits, for people from outside EU Europe and those without papers the warning on the postwar sign still applies, in Holland foreigners without papers caught by police usually are jailed as "administrative measure" (not a penal sentence) until everything is ready for repatriation and that bureaucratic procedure can take weeks or even months. Better have your valid papers on you in the border areas!

Last edited by domtoren; March 6th, 2010 at 11:29 PM. Reason: addition
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Old March 6th, 2010, 11:34 PM   #2847
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If you are in Holland for example that means that you are a EU citizen, citizen of a state that doesn't need Schengen visa or you have a Schengen visa, so why does that sign still apply?
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Old March 6th, 2010, 11:37 PM   #2848
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No that is false.. once you enter Schengen zone you can move freely within it.. no matter what passport you hold.
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Old March 6th, 2010, 11:40 PM   #2849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
If you are in Holland for example that means that you are a EU citizen, citizen of a state that doesn't need Schengen visa or you have a Schengen visa, so why does that sign still apply?
Because forigners outside of "Schengen" want to come in and have some rights to live there. They are within
Schengen but without Schengen-rights.
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Old March 6th, 2010, 11:47 PM   #2850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanT View Post
Because forigners outside of "Schengen" want to come in and have some rights to live there. They are within
Schengen but without Schengen-rights.
Me included.
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:07 AM   #2851
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German - Dutch border at Wyler near Groesbeek (Nijmegen area)













A border crossing in a village called Wyler in the Nijmegen area.
It is unmanned and generally uncontrolled but regularly there are police patrols who are directed at catching illegal immigrants from outside the EU. Especially people who have an exotic (non-white) look should (and legally MUST) have their papers on them as otherwise you risk jail until everything is sorted out. Even if you have Dutch or German citizenship but are not white that can happen! In Holland such border crossings and illegal stay are not a penal/criminal offense but administrative detention is possible and usual and that can last several days, weeks or months. Immigration jails are worse than penal prisons because the former are intended for short stays and not for resocialization, and in immigration cases judicial review of incarceration takes place after two to three weeks (in criminal cases within 3 days after arrest) and even entering NL by error without no criminal or traffic offense at all can lead to weeks in immigration jail.
So when touring border areas with Holland BE WARNED! With the right papers (EU identity card or passport or Schengen visa) there should be no problem with immigration. Leave narcotic drugs, weapons etc, at home, having these is a criminal offense in NL and also Belgium and Germany. Beware with illegal fireworks, Dutch regulations are severely limitative and are enforced with strict controls at the border, especially in November and December (New Year fireworks). For legal goods there are no significative limitations as EU has eliminated customs tariffs inside EU area. VAT tax: no problems for goods in reasonable quantities for private use (VAT can be charged for huge amounts for professional sale/use). Beware also with big sums of cash money, these can be seized under suspicion of tax evasion or proceeds from illegal trades (drugs, women, immigrants, arms etc.) and also in NL in vacation season tax authorities can scan and control lease and company cars at border crossings as private use of these leads to additional income tax, that private use is seen as additional taxable income. The license plates are scanned and if suspected private use does not appear on tax return forms Inland Revenue services can come and ask nasty questions.
So if you have a lease / company car and do not wish to pay tax on it better take private car, cycle or train or bus and leave the lease car at the company or at home. Such scanning controls also take place at shopping centres, beaches, festivals etc. where tax authorities suspect massive private use of company cars. There is a tax free allowance of 500 km per annum but every trip has to be administered (date, purpose, distance) and if these records are absent or incorrect tax authorities can get nasty too if caught on a suspected private trip!
So open internal borders in EU still can be tricky and treacherous for many people.....

Last edited by domtoren; March 7th, 2010 at 12:12 AM. Reason: addition
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #2852
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I guess that thing about company cars regards dutch citizens and maybe german ones, not the rest of EU.
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:14 AM   #2853
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I didn't get the point with the company car.

If your boss allows you to go on holiday with the company car what's the problem?
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:24 AM   #2854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
If you are in Holland for example that means that you are a EU citizen, citizen of a state that doesn't need Schengen visa or you have a Schengen visa, so why does that sign still apply?
For Dutch and EU citizens there is no problem regarding immigration (tax and crime is another story). Non-Schengen residents with regular residence permit or travelers with Schengen visa: No problem. Non-EU people with status limited to one country can get in serious trouble: asylum seekers can get a temporary permit in Belgium or France until the proceedings are cleared but only the definitive permit once the asylum is granted gives right of travel in Schengen area. The problem is that immigration rules regarding non-EU citizens still are national and Holland requires a visa for all non-EU citizens except USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, some South American countries and places like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland and also some Balkan countries which are candidates for EU.
In theory there are no border controls but Holland has mobile border control patrols which can appear at any crossing and stop everybody who they want (usually non-whites) and ask papers. If these are OK, no problem, if not, it often is jail until things are sorted out.
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #2855
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the Netherlands abide to the Schengen common visa policy, so every citizen of a country non listed in the Schengen white list needs a visa to enter any Schengen country.
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:29 AM   #2856
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@ domtoren: Thank you, very useful informations for my trip to Holland this summer.
@ bogdymol: AFAIK, France is applying the same regulations regarding the use of company cars.
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:31 AM   #2857
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Ok but it still regards company cars with french license plate, why should it regard for example to italian or spanish company cars, which abide to their national rules?
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:33 AM   #2858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eucitizen View Post
Ok but it still regards company cars with french license plate, why should it regard for example to italian or spanish company cars, which abide to their national rules?
Good question indeed.
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:34 AM   #2859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
I didn't get the point with the company car.

If your boss allows you to go on holiday with the company car what's the problem?
The problem is that private use of a company car is regarded as income in natura (in kind) which is taxable. Work use is not taxable. Controls are not directed to sort out the agreements between you and the boss but whether this additional income appears on the tex return form and tax is levied. If a company car appears at a place and time which is manifestly not for work (beach or shopping centre or border crossing in the weekends and holidays) they scan the license and verify if tax is paid for private use, if not tex authorities can ask nasty questions and require proof thjat the trip was genuinely business.
Under Dutch law all Dutch RESIDENTS who live and work here have to pay tax and these rules apply. So a Spaniard who works here and uses privately a company car of a Dutch firm has to pay that tax. It is not a problem of nationality but of tax which depend on where you live and work.
In other countries similar rules may apply. In future tax cooperation in EU could be extended to these aspects (now it exists for savings to combat tax evasion on capital earnings).
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Old March 7th, 2010, 12:40 AM   #2860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eucitizen View Post
Ok but it still regards company cars with french license plate, why should it regard for example to italian or spanish company cars, which abide to their national rules?
Probably France controls at its border crossings as we do at ours, but here a Dutch company car can be scanned as exit or entry points and perhaps searched to see whether there is a family or only the driver on board and also whether there is business cargo or holiday luggage on board. If a suspicion arises the taxpayer will have to produce proof that it was business and not private.
Perhaps in some future controls can become valid in all EU, as tax cooperation moves forward....
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