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Old July 18th, 2010, 09:41 PM   #3321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
N336, the Netherlands: Speed limit= 60 km/h
How do you drive on this road? In the middle lane, and if a car approaches you go with half of the car on that tiny lane on the right?


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Originally Posted by Palance View Post
It can be worse on the Dutch-German border: Here the max. speed is 10 km/h...
Who obeys that speed limit? I wouldn't.
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Old July 18th, 2010, 11:29 PM   #3322
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I didn't have to since I have crossed this border once but from Germany to the Netherlands.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 02:27 PM   #3323
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Italy - San Marino main border crossing in the town of Dogana (which means "customs"):



The writing on the arch says: "Welcome to the ancient land of liberty"

And this is a Sammarinese road sign:



"Historic centre and Mount Titano, World Heritage Site"
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 05:56 PM   #3324
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(R.S.M.) - funny that they have dots after letters.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 06:11 PM   #3325
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
(R.S.M.) - funny that they have dots after letters.
Even funnier that they are not part of Italy and we in Trieste are.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 06:13 PM   #3326
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Originally Posted by Alex Trst View Post
Even funnier that they are not part of Italy and we in Trieste are.
Ah, strange laws of geopolitics... I'm not surprised that Trieste is in Italy... I'm more surprised that Suedtirol is
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 04:05 AM   #3327
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I'm surprised that I live in Germany, though Napoleon had us already liberated from the Prussians back in 1806. But times change, and today the Rhineland is part of Germany. I guess we have just to go with it.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 05:06 AM   #3328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Trst View Post
Even funnier that they are not part of Italy and we in Trieste are.
I would understand, if you were a Slovene, but you seem to be a Bosnian according to your posts?
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 06:33 PM   #3329
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
I would understand, if you were a Slovene, but you seem to be a Bosnian according to your posts?
No, I'm Italian, but I'm an Italian from a territory formerly part of Austria-Hungary (and this is one of the reasons I love Bosnia, in particular, but also Slovenia, Croatia, Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, Venetia, etc.), although now Italy is here...
However you may find many Italian-speaking people from Trieste (among original inhabitants, not among the ones who came from proper Italy) who think being part of Italy is wrong for us, because of our traditions, our history, our being mixed with other peoples (especially Slovenes), our special geographic location, our economic aims.

Here's a picture from 1952, when Trieste was part of the Free Territory of Trieste (a former member state of the OEEC) and this was the border crossing between the FTT and Italy, seen from the Italian side. It was located between Monfalcone and S.Giovanni di Duino (Štivan).

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Old July 23rd, 2010, 07:01 PM   #3330
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Very interesting. I can't say I don't understand you, because inhabitants of San Marino (Sammarinese) are IMO more or less Italians too, yet they are independent. Do you think Trieste would secede from Italy, if there was a referendum about it? Anyway, independent Trieste within the borders of the former Free Territory of Trieste would mean Slovenia without sea. (but I doubt the current Slovenian part of it would want to secede from Slovenia)
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 07:04 PM   #3331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Trst View Post
However you may find many Italian-speaking people from Trieste (among original inhabitants, not among the ones who came from proper Italy) who think being part of Italy is wrong for us, because of our traditions, our history, our being mixed with other peoples (especially Slovenes), our special geographic location, our economic aims.
It seems quite odd to me, since AFAIK the unification with Italy was welcomed by the vast majority of the population...
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 07:12 PM   #3332
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It seems quite odd to me, since AFAIK the unification with Italy was welcomed by the vast majority of the population...
Perhaps by the vast majority of Italians, but not by Slovenes (and probably others) who constituted a large part of the population. Perhaps Trieste should really have remained independent (although as I've said, it would mean Slovenia without sea).

Another photo of the border between Trieste and Italy:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory_of_Trieste
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 07:19 PM   #3333
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Perhaps by the vast majority of Italians, but not by Slovenes (and probably others)
So true.

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who constituted a large part of the population.
Less true. I mean, large but non so large. The entire Free State of Trieste (which was composed also by a part of Istria down to Cittanova), was inhabited by 370k people, of which 260k were italians. In Trieste city the ratio was even higher.

Quote:
Perhaps Trieste should really have remained independent (although as I've said, it would mean Slovenia without sea).
Dunno. But the secession of Trieste has never been an issue here in Italy, for the past sixty years.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 07:28 PM   #3334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
Do you think Trieste would secede from Italy, if there was a referendum about it? Anyway, independent Trieste within the borders of the former Free Territory of Trieste would mean Slovenia without sea. (but I doubt the current Slovenian part of it would want to secede from Slovenia)
Unfortunately, no, beacuse there are far too many people from proper Italy who now live here, and they would be surely against, plus such a referendum wouldn't be even considered legal and an offence by authorities, regardless of what local people think.
Don't worry, even if the case, we wouldn't ask for Slovenian Littoral.

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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It seems quite odd to me, since AFAIK the unification with Italy was welcomed by the vast majority of the population...
There would be so much to say about it, but I only say that in Italy there's an "official" history and that that is a belief that you cannot even try to discuss because it's a one way of thinking, but I was born here and I know my people and what they think and say within their home walls. I talk to them (relatives, friends, etc.) everyday and the result is simple and clear.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 07:33 PM   #3335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Trst View Post
There would be so much to say about it, but I only say that in Italy there's an "official" history and that that is a belief that you cannot even try to discuss because it's a one way of thinking, but I was born here and I know my people and what they think and say within their home walls. I talk to them (relatives, friends, etc.) everyday and the result is simple and clear.
I take your word for it, since I never been to Trieste (actually once, but passing while traveling to Pola). I must admit, though, these kind of arguments reminds me too much of Lega Nord and Padania, even if I recognise the motives here are completely different.
Probably you're right about the official history and all, but if that means that we must never discuss the unity of Italy, I am ok with that.

I'm sorry if I seem rude, I don't mean to... that's just my two cents.

Last edited by g.spinoza; July 23rd, 2010 at 08:17 PM.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 07:34 PM   #3336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Dunno. But the secession of Trieste has never been an issue here in Italy, for the past sixty years.
Italy is a unified country anyway. But how come this unification left out San Marino? (I understand it left out the Vatican City) Is it because the Sammarinese are too proud of being the oldest recorded sovereign state and constitutional republic in the world to join Italy?
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 07:37 PM   #3337
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Italy is a unified country anyway. But home come this unification left out San Marino? (I understand it left out the Vatican City) Is it because the Sammarinese are too proud of being the oldest recorded sovereign state and constitutional republic in the world to join Italy?
The "official" history, as Alex_Trst would say, records that San Marino helped and gave shelter to Garibaldi and the Thousand during their journey through Italy fighting the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies and the Papal States, so in return King of Piedmont granted them independence from the soon-to-be Italian state.

It seems a bit simplistic to me, though, but I don't know which the "real" motives could have been.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 08:17 PM   #3338
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While we're at it (although it's a regional border nowadays), this is the fomer border between Trieste and Italy today. It's the border between the Province of Trieste and the Province of Gorizia (nice cut in the back):



Trivia: the border runs along one of the shortest rivers in the world - Timavo, just 2 km.

Last edited by Verso; July 23rd, 2010 at 11:03 PM.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 11:01 PM   #3339
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Verso...

Sorry to go all offtopic on you now, but do you know when google streetview will be available in Slovenia? I
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 11:22 PM   #3340
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Verso...

Sorry to go all offtopic on you now, but do you know when google streetview will be available in Slovenia? I
Other than two border crossings with Italy, I haven't heard anything about it. Now I see they're already driving in Croatia, Hungary and Austria. I don't know why they decided to cover all Slovenia's neighbors, but not Slovenia itself. Hopefully soon.
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