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Old October 20th, 2010, 08:43 PM   #3581
Alex Trst
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I still see booths on the border between Italy and Slovenia on the Slovenian side.
Italy removed all of them, even some on smaller roads, but when Italy has decided to re-establish border checks for a couple of days, due to an event, it was a bit ridiculous that policemen were forced to stay inside temporary fabric gazeboes. It looked like it was a fair.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 11:11 PM   #3582
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I still see booths on the border between Italy and Slovenia on the Slovenian side.
Didn't they say they'd remove them already two years ago?
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Old October 21st, 2010, 12:14 AM   #3583
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Originally Posted by eucitizen View Post
Well afterall Schengen treaty came into force in 1996 and in few countries and slowly enlarged till now. Only 14 years and the border crossing infrastructure existied for more longer and most of them were very expensive.
Anyway The best performing countries in removing the border infrastructure are Germany, Austria, Italy, the Netherlands and Portugal.
Poland is the best performer among the newest members, then Czech rep.
Slovakia is removing very slowly mainly due to the fact that there are some unresolved dispute who should have the property of thouse buildings, then lack of money. Some borders crossing infrastructure was, however, removed. In any case Slovakia removed the worst obstacles for smooth crossing, except for the border crossing with Hungary, where they can only remove the whole infrastructure. But it costs money.
I have no idea what are doing the other newest members, afaik Hungary had poor performance. Anyway forumers from these countries can inform us better.
I don't think so, the main border crossing from Portugal to Spain (in Vilar Formoso) is on a national road (no motorway across the border) and the booths are still very much so there.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 01:13 AM   #3584
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Well I didnt wrote that these countries removed every single border post, but only they removed posts on many borders.
Btw I had a look at Vilar Formoso and I noticed that the infrastructure lays exactly on the border, the question is whom it belongs and then if there is a will to remove it. Anyway arent Portugal and Spain to build a motorway there?
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Old October 21st, 2010, 06:11 PM   #3585
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Seems weirdly draconian actually. Surely it's okay to have such huts in situ provided that they're no longer used for their original purpose. Also, as has been mentioned, if member states can reinstate border checks just because some random event is going on somewhere, it'd come in handy to keep them.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 06:19 PM   #3586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I don't think so, the main border crossing from Portugal to Spain (in Vilar Formoso) is on a national road (no motorway across the border) and the booths are still very much so there.


Main border crossing THAT? not at all! There are 4 motorway border crossings at this moment between Spain and Portugal and 2 more under construction. They have no signs of booths at the borders and the speed limit is 120 km/h on all of them. I drove all 4 of them so I'm completely sure. Portugal and Spain are extremely integrated, it's difficult to keep track of all the paved road crossings that are currently between the 2 countries (not less than 60 if you count secondary roads and urban crossings), and it is extremely extremely rare to find any police at the borders.

Current motorway crossings are:

- A49-A22 (south, near Vila Real, main in the mediterrenean area)

- A5- A6 (near Badajoz, which is the main crossing if you go from Madrid to Lisboa)

- A24 - A75 (near Chaves, it's the main one when coming from France to north Portugal. It's less than one year old and doesn't show up in google maps yet but you can check it in Via Michelin or other internet maps).

A55- A3 (near Tui, Valença, it's the main one from Galicia to north Portugal).


In regards to Villa Formoso-Fuentes de Oñoro crossing by national road, it had it's booths removed about 2 years ago (you can check it on Street view) and a motorway is under construction (only 5 kms remain under construction to link the portuguese A-25 and the spanish A-62 to by pass the town). Anyway they have also several urban crossings on that town (street, avenue) beyond the old national road.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 07:00 PM   #3587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAkumana View Post
Main border crossing THAT? not at all!
It is probably not the most transited border crossing between Portugal and Spain, but it is definitely one of the main routes from Portugal to the rest of Europe (excluding Spain obviously) and vice-versa. The A-75 is too new I guess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAkumana View Post
In regards to Villa Formoso-Fuentes de Oñoro crossing by national road, it had it's booths removed about 2 years ago (you can check it on Street view) and a motorway is under construction (only 5 kms remain under construction to link the portuguese A-25 and the spanish A-62 to by pass the town). Anyway they have also several urban crossings on that town (street, avenue) beyond the old national road.
Mmmh... street view. Anyway street view images are older than 2 years in Spain and Portugal.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 07:34 PM   #3588
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Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
It is probably not the most transited border crossing between Portugal and Spain, but it is definitely one of the main routes from Portugal to the rest of Europe (excluding Spain obviously) and vice-versa. The A-75 is too new I guess.

Of course it's a very important route. I didn't mean to disregard its importance, I just wanted state that it was far from being "the main border crossing between Spain and Portugal".


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Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Mmmh... street view. Anyway street view images are older than 2 years in Spain and Portugal.
The street view image is the way it currently looks like. Booths were removed (they were over the platforms you can see on the image). Since this is a very urban road and a motorway is under construction I don't think further dismatleling could be expected on the near future.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 08:38 PM   #3589
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It is, if someone is going to drive to most of Portugal from i.e France or Luxembourg, like most entrants are, the most direct way is though Vilar Formoso. If you want to get to Lisbon or Porto from Spain, you would go though Vilar Formoso
Ok, I checked, and Tui-Valença is the busiest border crossing, but in Portuguese popular culture, the main border crossing would be Vilar Formoso
To Porto:

Vilar Formoso-A25-A1 OR A29

To Lisbon:

Vilar Formoso-A25-A23-A1

---------

Anyway, this is a very interesting blog about Portuguese border crossing with lots of pictures

http://historiasdaraia.blogspot.com/

On the right you will see black tags. Click on them for each border crossing.

Last edited by DanielFigFoz; October 21st, 2010 at 09:10 PM.
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 04:20 PM   #3590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
It is, if someone is going to drive to most of Portugal from i.e France or Luxembourg, like most entrants are, the most direct way is though Vilar Formoso. If you want to get to Lisbon or Porto from Spain, you would go though Vilar Formoso
Yes, it's an important gateway to France and northern Europe, I completely agree with you. But not that much to Spain.

If you want to go from Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia or Zaragoza to the Lisbon area you will go through A5- A6 via Badajoz. If you are coming from Sevilla you will use A49-A22, if you are from Galicia (A Coruña, Vigo) you will use A55- A3. Bilbao is the only major spanish urban area for which Vilar Formoso would be the best option.

For Porto area it is indeed the best option when coming from Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia and Zaragoza. But not from Seville and Galicia. And from Bilbao you have now the option of A24 - A75.

It could be said that that Vilar Formoso is the main border crossing for transit directed to Northern Europe. But not that much for Spain and southern and East Europe.

This is just to polemize
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 06:20 PM   #3591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAkumana View Post
It could be said that that Vilar Formoso is the main border crossing for transit directed to Northern Europe. But not that much for Spain and southern and East Europe.
It's actually 74 km less via Vilar Formoso, if you go to Italy or Eastern Europe, than via Badajoz.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...36&ie=UTF8&z=6
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 06:28 PM   #3592
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I read somewhere that Figueira da Foz is the nearest seaport to Madrid. We should really take advantage of that
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 12:28 AM   #3593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
It's actually 74 km less via Vilar Formoso, if you go to Italy or Eastern Europe, than via Badajoz.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...36&ie=UTF8&z=6
Arggghhh.... you are right! I made a stupid statement.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 03:02 PM   #3594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I read somewhere that Figueira da Foz is the nearest seaport to Madrid. We should really take advantage of that
No, Valencia is closer to Madrid than Figueira da Foz.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 03:21 PM   #3595
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What a shame, but we should lie about it and pretend for more commerce.

Anyway, Valencia is a big City, so they won't suffer, where as Figueira da Foz has 50 000 and is a town thats in decline, and has been, with a few stops, since the Spanish Civil War, so we need it more
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 04:16 PM   #3596
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Originally Posted by aliesperet View Post
It is due to the Schengen Agreement , which means that all Schengen residents are allowed to travel without a passport across the countries that participate in the pact.
There is more misconception about the Schengen Treaty than anything else in EU:

1) It does not allow "border crossing without passport", but without controls.

2) Not only "all Schengen residents", but all those, plus all tourists with a Schengen visa, plus the Swiss, Norwegians, Icelanders.

3) You did not write it, but for the archive: Schengen Treaty does not remove borders. I've met with such claims as well.

4) No passport is necessary for EU citizens to cross other EU non-Schengen borders, the plastic ID card is enough, although it only applies to Romania and Bulgaria (+Norway and Iceland?), because UK and Ireland abandoned their ID cards.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 04:24 PM   #3597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
There is more misconception about the Schengen Treaty than anything else in EU:

1) It does not allow "border crossing without passport", but without controls.

2) Not only "all Schengen residents", but all those, plus all tourists with a Schengen visa, plus the Swiss, Norwegians, Icelanders.

3) You did not write it, but for the archive: Schengen Treaty does not remove borders. I've met with such claims as well.

4) No passport is necessary for EU citizens to cross other EU non-Schengen borders, the plastic ID card is enough, although it only applies to Romania and Bulgaria (+Norway and Iceland?), because UK and Ireland abandoned their ID cards.
All that you've wrote is correct. As for point 4: this summer I traveled across the UK using only my valid ID card, but vice versa won't apply: an UK tourist should have his passport when he enters in Romania. How strange.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 04:25 PM   #3598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
3) You did not write it, but for the archive: Schengen Treaty does not remove borders. I've met with such claims as well.
Right, it removes controls, but each country still has borders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
4) No passport is necessary for EU citizens to cross other EU non-Schengen borders, the plastic ID card is enough, although it only applies to Romania and Bulgaria (+Norway and Iceland?), because UK and Ireland abandoned their ID cards.
Plastic and paper ID cards, as Italy still has a majority of paper ID cards.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 06:03 PM   #3599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
There is more misconception about the Schengen Treaty than anything else in EU:

1) It does not allow "border crossing without passport", but without controls.
No, that's true. Passports are not required to travel inside Schengen Area. I never had a passport until last year, when I went to Japan, but I traveled before in Germany, Austria, France...
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 06:07 PM   #3600
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The sentence should've been:

"1) It does not allow "border crossing without ID", but without controls. "
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