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Old September 28th, 2011, 03:33 PM   #5241
alserrod
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I though Benzú check point border was opened but... it doesn't, there will be only one point opened for crossing the border.
At Melilla I am sure there are four ones (they appeared on news some months ago), even if one of them has more than 50% of traffic.

off-topic... Ceuta and Melilla have football teams in the four range at Spain. One plays against teams from Western Andalucia and the other with teams from Eastern Andalucia.

In the Cup they try to make that the first rounds will be between the "minor teams", only one match (not in each stadium) and the winner goes to the following round.

Because minimizing costs, the first rounds are between teams in the same "area". They can be strongest or not so much, but the same "area" and journeys are cheaper.

Last year the draw made a Ceuta-Melilla in the Cup. I think it is the first official match they made in 15 years at least (or more).

I really do not know how the team of Melilla went to Ceuta. They could go by road crossing Morocco or going by plane and Helicopter via Malaga (for them are really cheap those travels).

It was Ceuta who won and passed to the following round. In that round there are two matches in each stadium and there are no "areas". It is a "entirely" draw and you can play against any team, doesn't matter the category, location, etc...

The draw signaled a Ceuta - FC Barcelona in the cup!!!
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Old September 28th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #5242
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I think there's only one crossing point in Melilla, Bab Melilia (Puerta de Melilla).

Melilla has an airport, the football team can go directly from any spanish airport. I'm not sure the moroccan authorities would let the Melilla team enter Morocco if it's an official game. Politics again.

BTW, Tanger Med was built near Ceuta to kill the city's port traffic. There were millions of moroccans living aboard and tourists who cross the strait every year trought Ceuta, now they all go to Tanger Med and the port of Algeciras is also suffering from that. And a new port will be built near Melilla for the same reason, Nador West Med.

A picture I made last saturday near Tanger Med, we can see Tarifa.

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Old September 28th, 2011, 04:10 PM   #5243
alserrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasaMor View Post
I think there's only one crossing point in Melilla, Bab Melilia (Puerta de Melilla).
In this case I'm sure there are four points. The mainest is Beni Enzar but there are three ones more



Quote:
Melilla has an airport, the football team can go directly from any spanish airport. I'm not sure the moroccan authorities would let the Melilla team enter Morocco if it's an official game. Politics again.

They would travel as tourist. One can take a bus or several cars and drive from one point to other

Anyway... Ceuta hasn't airport and it is very difficult to built there one. That's why it has a helicopter landind area (managed by the same public entreprise than almost all of Spanish airports). So a flight Melilla-Ceuta is not possible.
For those citizens, they can buy a domestic ticket where they will have a reduction of 50%, event with connections (only inside Spain, if they travel abroad they pay full fare). That's why making connections could not be so expensive for them.

Anyway... I have a mate at work who was born at Melilla. His family keeps there and he came to my city 20 years ago more or less. He, officially, lives at Melilla because the plane ticket reduction.
But in the last years... he says that a Madrid-Nador with Ryanair full fare is much cheaper than a Madrid-Melilla with Iberia half price... so he travels with Ryanair. His family will have to go for searching him in the airport and traveling 5 km or 40 km is not so many difference if the discount is important.



Quote:
BTW, Tanger Med was built near Ceuta to kill the city's port traffic. There were millions of moroccans living aboard and tourists who cross the strait every year trought Ceuta, now they all go to Tanger Med and the port of Algeciras is also suffering from that. And a new port will be built near Melilla for the same reason, Nador West Med.
Not only the traffic at Ceuta but also the border control.
If you get an Algeciras-Ceuta the border will be crossed at Ceuta and it is a chaos in some days.
If you get an Algeciras-Tanger, the border will be checked at Algeciras and Tanger and will be faster, faster, faster.



And off-topic... (sea borders...).

The narrowest point between Europe and Africa is only 14 km. Obviouly it is not possible to have the miles of territory in the sea. As far as I know, in the narrowest point, there are 4 km territory of Spain, 3 km lane only for Mediterranean to Atlantic, 3 km lane only for Atlantic to Mediterranean and 4 km territory of Morocco.

And any ship has to consider the importance of transversal traffic (ships from Morocco to Spain).

You will need a very accurate GPS to know "where you are", remembering that at Africa, when you approach by ship to Ceuta you enter again in Spanish territory and at Europe the same with Gibraltar (United Kingdom territory).

Several months ago a Spanish police patrol was running to catch on the sea for drug smugglers... and they appeared in the center of the Gibraltar harbour!.

The diplomatic conflict was, in the beginning, important. Later all was clear but... they were arrested only because carrying drugs, not smuggling, as far as they were arrested by British police.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 04:29 PM   #5244
CasaMor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
In this case I'm sure there are four points. The mainest is Beni Enzar but there are three ones more
I have no idea. I've never been to Melilla.

Quote:
They would travel as tourist. One can take a bus or several cars and drive from one point to other

Anyway... Ceuta hasn't airport and it is very difficult to built there one. That's why it has a helicopter landind area (managed by the same public entreprise than almost all of Spanish airports). So a flight Melilla-Ceuta is not possible.
For those citizens, they can buy a domestic ticket where they will have a reduction of 50%, event with connections (only inside Spain, if they travel abroad they pay full fare). That's why making connections could not be so expensive for them.

Anyway... I have a mate at work who was born at Melilla. His family keeps there and he came to my city 20 years ago more or less. He, officially, lives at Melilla because the plane ticket reduction.
But in the last years... he says that a Madrid-Nador with Ryanair full fare is much cheaper than a Madrid-Melilla with Iberia half price... so he travels with Ryanair. His family will have to go for searching him in the airport and traveling 5 km or 40 km is not so many difference if the discount is important.
Madrid - Nador is a good idea but crossing the border not really. I hate terrestrial borders. I always take the plane to go to Spain.

I've been to Malaga's airport so many times, and I'm sure there's a flight Ceuta - Malaga. So a Ceuta - Malaga - Melilla is possible.

I also have friends from Ceuta and Melilia with moroccans origins living in Spain, most of them in Malaga.

Quote:
Not only the traffic at Ceuta but also the border control.
If you get an Algeciras-Ceuta the border will be crossed at Ceuta and it is a chaos in some days.
If you get an Algeciras-Tanger, the border will be checked at Algeciras and Tanger and will be faster, faster, faster.
Yup I know. There's no Algeciras - Tanger BTW.
Tanger Med is not Tanger (Tanger city port). There's 2 maritime lines:

Tanger (city port) - Tarifa
Tanger Med - Algeciras



Quote:
And off-topic... (sea borders...).

The narrowest point between Europe and Africa is only 14 km. Obviouly it is not possible to have the miles of territory in the sea. As far as I know, in the narrowest point, there are 4 km territory of Spain, 3 km lane only for Mediterranean to Atlantic, 3 km lane only for Atlantic to Mediterranean and 4 km territory of Morocco.

And any ship has to consider the importance of transversal traffic (ships from Morocco to Spain).

You will need a very accurate GPS to know "where you are", remembering that at Africa, when you approach by ship to Ceuta you enter again in Spanish territory and at Europe the same with Gibraltar (United Kingdom territory).

Several months ago a Spanish police patrol was running to catch on the sea for drug smugglers... and they appeared in the center of the Gibraltar harbour!.

The diplomatic conflict was, in the beginning, important. Later all was clear but... they were arrested only because carrying drugs, not smuggling, as far as they were arrested by British police.
That means Ceuta ferrys use the moroccan territory. Not cool.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 06:30 PM   #5245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasaMor View Post
Madrid - Nador is a good idea but crossing the border not really. I hate terrestrial borders. I always take the plane to go to Spain.
There is a detail I forgot... Madrid-Melilla is with Iberia. Some luxes, very expensive and for Melillian citizens, 50% price.
Madrid-Nador is Ryanair.

I think that explains everything about crossing twice a border. He needs his passport to go to visit his parents to cross twice the border in just half an hour (check-in at Nador, check-in at Melilla)


Quote:
I've been to Malaga's airport so many times, and I'm sure there's a flight Ceuta - Malaga. So a Ceuta - Malaga - Melilla is possible.
In that case... a charter flight will be always cheaper than a connection but... be sure there is no airport at Ceuta. There is a Helicopter platform.

http://www.aena-aeropuertos.es/csee/...1075113413724/

The official page of AENA, the public entreprise which manage airports is this: www.aena.es and in the list of airports you will find the site of helicopters for Ceuta.



Quote:
That means Ceuta ferrys use the moroccan territory. Not cool.

No need... remember that there are 6 km of "international water" in the narrowest point... and Algeciras is located in the east of that point.

Even it is possible to go from Tanger to Gibraltar without passing Spanish waters.


Talking about Gibraltar... you can take a look to any cruises entreprise. Should it cross the cruise there, they will stop in 99% at Gibraltar.
Why?. Taxes. There are too many harbours where they can stop and many interesting places to visit in 100 km east-west, even in Spain or Morocco... but they stop at Gibraltar, and all visits are within that area.
Why?... the cost for a ferry that stops there is much, much cheaper than at Algeciras, Cadiz, Tanger, etc... and... they use the stop to carry food and other goods for the trip. Buying them at Gibraltar makes almost tax free.
Inside Gibraltar the border is a chaos and they will never prepare a journey outside the site. So you just visit that corner.

You can have a look to any cruises company. Any trip from, for example, Genoa or Barcelona to Canary Islands or the French Atlantic (or Dover, Amsterdam, etc...) will have a stop at Barcelona or Valencia, maybe near Almeria or Malaga and later... always Gibraltar because this reason.
After there it is used to go to Casablanca or Lisbon depending of destination. This is why there are very nice sites in the Atlantic coast at Morocco, Portugal and Spain where they will never stop...
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Old September 30th, 2011, 12:35 AM   #5246
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The border town of Santana do Livramento is now on google streetview I notice, think this place might have been mentioned on here before - there certainly seem to be no restrictions:

http://g.co/maps/nqafw
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Old September 30th, 2011, 12:39 AM   #5247
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The controls are at the exits of the town
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Old October 1st, 2011, 11:38 PM   #5248
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Mária Valéria Bridge between Esztergom and Párkány (Stúrovo) over the Danube river.
Bridge is named after Princess Marie Valerie of Austria-Hungary).



Photo taken from Esztergom in 2010 (taken by me, looks almost the same as the photo in Wikipedia).
Originally constructed in 1895, the bridge has been partially destroyed in the course of the retreat of German troops in 1944. The repaired bridge has been opened for traffic in 2001.
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Old October 2nd, 2011, 12:27 AM   #5249
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---

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Old October 2nd, 2011, 12:31 AM   #5250
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Morocco/Spain

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Old October 2nd, 2011, 10:43 PM   #5251
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Hi all,

Just a quick question -

Can someone tell me about the PL/DE border before 2004? I'm specifically thinking about three different border crossings at -

Kostrzyn
Ahlbeck
Frankfurt (Oder)

Specifically, my question is - for people travelling on foot, were there specific Customs controls at these points? For instance - in FFO, there's the old buildings that you had to pass through if you were walking. At this point, were there systematic Customs controls, like as found at the Medyka border crossing?

(for anyone unfamiliar with Medyka - you pass through the Customs control, where your passport is scanned and baggage checked, before proceeding to the passport control which is distinctly separate.)

I cannot find an answer to this question - and of course, I have no way to access the buildings in Frankfurt to find out if there was a specific designated place for such controls.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:02 AM   #5252
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[IMG]http://i56.************/2d83z44.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i54.************/vzdg5f.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i56.************/f0aec5.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:05 AM   #5253
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Have dissapeared there border cabins?
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:07 AM   #5254
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I've already crossed a border between Spain and Portugal to go to Tavira and Faro. It was awsome.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:12 AM   #5255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Have dissapeared there border cabins?
They didn't disappeared, but they aren't used now. I think most are abandoned unfortunally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CasaMor View Post
I've already crossed a border between Spain and Portugal to go to Tavira and Faro. It was awsome.
Did you cross it in Ayamonte/Vila Real Santo António?
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:15 AM   #5256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasaMor View Post
Morocco/Spain



In this pic we can find the explanation about the limits in the strait:

south to north:
4 km territory of Morocco
3 km lane to Mediterranean (where the ship in the photo appears)
3 km lane to Atlantic
4 km territory of Spain.

Even if international agreements gives 22,2 km (12 sea miles) or at least "until half way" as far as this strait is a natural pass, the borders are limited.

Of course, in the case of Ceuta and Gibraltar, the same situation...

There are no international waters between Gibraltar and Algeciras as well as it is a bay, not a natural pass. So then, territorial waters until midway. UK in the right, Spain in the left.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:16 AM   #5257
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Yeah, its a shame, some of them are beautiful buildings, like in Costa's first photo
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:19 AM   #5258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by costa View Post
Did you cross it in Ayamonte/Vila Real Santo António?
Yes. Malaga - Sevilla - Tavira - Faro.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:52 AM   #5259
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^

This is the other coastline border, in the north, between Caminha/A Guarda. You can cross it by ferry.

[IMG]http://i53.************/205b69u.jpg[/IMG]
photo: DurKen

PS: The picture was taken from the Galician side and the town we can see is Caminha.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 12:16 AM   #5260
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Awesome pics of Spain/Morocco!
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