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Old November 11th, 2011, 04:49 PM   #5381
Corvinus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friedrichstrasse View Post
Anyway, Austria was at that time a multi-national empire, so it had Italian-speaking territories, as well as German-, Hungarian-, Czechian-, Slovakian-, Slovenian-, Romanian-, Serbian- and Croatian-.
That empire was Austria-Hungary, not just Austria
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Old November 11th, 2011, 05:30 PM   #5382
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I don't say Austria did everything right before WWI. but Italy went for territories that had nothing to do with it. Italy until Postojna? south Tyrol? Gorizia county had 60% of Slovenian population, and 30% of Italian and Friulian, mostly concentrated in cities.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 06:02 PM   #5383
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Well, it's hard for aggressors (A-H) to lecture others (Italy) (although A-H didn't start the war to gain territory), but as we can see, it's better to punish an aggressor with reparations than by taking its territory. That only creates new problems.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 06:03 PM   #5384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
I don't say Austria did everything right before WWI. but Italy went for territories that had nothing to do with it. Italy until Postojna? south Tyrol? Gorizia county had 60% of Slovenian population, and 30% of Italian and Friulian, mostly concentrated in cities.
And if Austria had won the war, do you think really would have kept only the territories which had to do with it? Arriving until Piave river, would have said "ok we won, but we are kind and you can get back your land, we go back in the other side of the Alps..." Wars are like this: if you win you get something, if you lose don't bemoan. Do you maybe forgot that Austria annetted Bosnia-Hercegovina in 1908 exchanging it with a support for the transit of russian warships on strait Bosphorus, Marmara, Dardanelles, followed by an agreement of turkish empire in change of money? So tell me, what has to do Bosnia with Austria?
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Old November 11th, 2011, 06:06 PM   #5385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
Gorizia county had 60% of Slovenian population, and 30% of Italian and Friulian, mostly concentrated in cities.
Not really, the southern part was quite completely italian. The ethnical border merges quite exactly with the political border of nowadays.

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So tell me, what has to do Bosnia with Austria?
Nothing with nowadays Austria, but Austria-Hungary wasn't a nation, so Bosnia was a region among the others.

(In fact Austria and Hungary were two different States, only the Head of State was the same)
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Old November 11th, 2011, 06:17 PM   #5386
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It had nothing to do neither at that time, it was just a region to get for to expand the Empire. So I really don't see why if Austria-Hungary got an entire region just to expand itself is ok, while Italy got some cities (in which however some italians lived) after a war has to be considerated a sad motivation
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Old November 11th, 2011, 06:22 PM   #5387
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I don't like nationalisms. Austria provided equal rights for every population, post-war states (not only Italy, of course!) persecuted minorities.

Worst of all, as Jews and Romas hadn't a own region and couldn't be relocated, practically lost their right to exist...
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Old November 11th, 2011, 06:36 PM   #5388
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If Austria provided equal rights for every population, maybe pan-slavins movement didn't have motivation to exist, austrian didn't have to enforce martial law in Prague in July 1908, Franz Ferdinand wouldn't be murdered in Sarajevo and maybe the war wouldn't started...
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Old November 11th, 2011, 06:40 PM   #5389
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That's nationalism...
Anyway, post-1920 Yugoslavia persecuted the italian minorities in Dalmatia, as well as Italy persecuted slovenians and croatians in eastern Istria and Krain/Carniola.

None of them had had such problems before, and had lived together (or side-by-side) for centuries...
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Old November 11th, 2011, 06:47 PM   #5390
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Thanks to nationalism Italy exists, otherwise we would be still divided into Papal State, Two Sicilies and don't know which many other states
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Old November 11th, 2011, 07:04 PM   #5391
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Quote:
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I don't like nationalisms. Austria provided equal rights for every population
Mini EU. (or Central European Union)
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Old November 11th, 2011, 07:37 PM   #5392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friedrichstrasse View Post
None of them had had such problems before, and had lived together (or side-by-side) for centuries...
... and this countinues today. I enjoy the international atmosphere in my home area; too bad for all the shit that happened in 20. century though.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 07:53 PM   #5393
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Thanks to nationalism Italy exists, otherwise we would be still divided into Papal State, Two Sicilies and don't know which many other states
Nationalism and fascism aren't the same thing. Nationalists who fought during XIX century to unificate our country (like Garibaldi, Mazzini, Cavour, ecc...) didn't support repression against minorances like fascist did between the 1920s and 1940s. Minorances shouldn't be regarded as a problem for a country. There are countries that are ethnically mixed like Switzerland, Spain and Belgium and they stay united and develop like other European countries.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #5394
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I wouldn't put Belgium as an example though.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 08:32 PM   #5395
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I wouldn't put neither Spain as example
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Old November 11th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #5396
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Probably most Spanish and Belgians don't hate their connationals because their different language apart nationalists and stupid or rude people.
I've nothing against Sudtiroler and Italo-Slovenes even if they live in Italy but don't speak Italian between each other. Only when some of them refuse to answer in Italian or speak against Italians I became angry, but not because of their ethnic origines but because of their rudeness.
In a world that is becaming more and more cosmopolital IMHO is ridiculous be against some people only because of their language.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 09:45 PM   #5397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
It had nothing to do neither at that time, it was just a region to get for to expand the Empire. So I really don't see why if Austria-Hungary got an entire region just to expand itself is ok, while Italy got some cities (in which however some italians lived) after a war has to be considerated a sad motivation
others bad actions don't justify yours.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 09:47 PM   #5398
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they are called "consequences"....
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Old November 11th, 2011, 09:51 PM   #5399
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Let's end this, guys. We're in EU and Schengen now.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:01 PM   #5400
Chilio
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New small (touristic) border crossing of local importance between Greece and Bulgaria in the Rhodopes Mountains, near the Bulgarian town Zlatograd:





Location of the bordercrossing on Google Earth

And the road, leading to it:




Last edited by Chilio; November 11th, 2011 at 10:07 PM.
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