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Old December 2nd, 2011, 12:30 AM   #5441
Satyricon84
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murders aren't the only type of crime you can do...
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 01:00 AM   #5442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Worse than Camden.
The problem is not that you live in Philly but that you never set a foot in the parisian suburbs, you talk about.
Only one people died during the 2005 riot, while 34 people were killed in 2005 in Camden.
34 people killed in a tiny municipality of 77,000 inhabitants.
By comparaison, the number of murder AND attempted murder was only of 92 in Seine Saint Denis in 2009, a departement with 1.5 million inhabitants.
Satyricon doesn't live in "Philly"*; I do. As did the police officer whose murderer was named an honorary citizen of Paris (as well as having a street named for him in Saint-Denis). An indecent and, dare I say it, uncivilized act of contempt toward this city and this country, let alone Officer Faulkner's family, in my opinion. It was Brisavoine who - in the at-least-we're-more-civilized-than-the-barbarians mode that comes way too easily to too many French (which permits them to think acts of contempt like that already noted are acceptable) - brought U.S. crime rates into it when someone dared to criticize France. We were just sitting here minding our own business.

*Only natives are allowed to say "Philly." I don't, and I've lived here since 1994. :-P
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 01:01 AM   #5443
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
But since you wrote that it was a "strong border" I supposed that it was one of them.
It's a strong border in the administrative and political sense.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 09:26 AM   #5444
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 09:59 AM   #5445
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 05:59 PM   #5446
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The "Vaalserberg" is 322,5 meters high, is the highest point of the Netherlands and also the only Dutch tripoint with Belgium and Germany. Between 1816 and 1920 it was also a quadripoint (is that the correct term?) since the country Neutral Moresnet existed here. That is why the road from the Dutch village of Vaals towards this point is still called the Viergrenzenweg (four borders road).

Location: http://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Vaalser...rberg&t=m&z=18

Koning Boudewijntoren (BE), seen from NL. Unfortunately it was closed. The forest on the left is DE.


"You are leaving the Netherlands, goodbye". The sign is NL, the terrace in BE and the forest left in DE.


The tripoint itself. The borders are marked by tiny green lines. Position is NL, right is BE, left is DE.


From German side



On Belgian side, the former borderline with Neutral-Moresnet. The last language is Esperanto, which was introduced in that country in that time.


Information



Looking south. This is Belgium, Germany is on the left.


Road sign to the Belgian village of Gemmenich which is in French-speaking Wallonia


Footpath to borderstones of Neutral-Moresnet. The hill was to steep for me


Looking north towards the tower (and tripoint)


Forest road on Belgian side. Since this is in the bilingual municipalty Kelmis (La Calamine), sings must be in Germand and French


Border stone. The path is in Belgium, Germany on the right


Belgian sign on the road to Gemmenich. Welcome to the province Liège (Lüttich in German, Luik in Dutch)


Border stone between Belgium and Neutral Moresnet



Again a bit uphill. Belgian afphalt, German forest.


I could hardly read this, but I am sure it is a border marker. Germany left, Belgium right. It was no more then 10 meters from the tripoint.


Back on Dutch side. In the background the highest Dutch point. The border marker is not actually on the border.


Navigation showing 3 borders


The highest point again, some days later in the sun


Tripoint


The tripoint from above. The biggest part is German, the smallest part Netherlands, and the remaining part Belgium. So I took this picture standing in Belgium.


From German side.


The Belgian village of Gemmenich as seen from above


The German city of Aachen, seen from the Vaalserberg (approx 500m from the tripoint)
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 06:20 PM   #5447
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Vaals (NL) - Aachen (DE). http://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Vaals&h...mburg&t=m&z=19

This is the main road connecting these two cities
A hidden EU-sign


Looking from Aachen towards Vaals, taken from German side, but almost all on the picture is Dutch


Looking to Germany from the Netherlands





There is also a less known crossing for pedestrians and cyclists only.

Location: http://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Vaals&h...mburg&t=m&z=19

Akenerstraat in Vaals


The Akenerstraat. This street is Dutch, the yellow building is German


The stones are on the border


There is a former customs house on the border with an old border stone which should be, according to a sign, from 1545.



A border stone. The white house is German, the other one Dutch


German sign for cyclists. A church in Vaals on the background. Vaals is not really 600 meters from here, 6 meters would be more correct


The Dutch street (and former customs house) seen from the German side.


Exactly on the border. NL left, DE right.
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 12:52 AM   #5448
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Interesting city divided by a border. It remembers me Baarle-Hertog
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 01:24 AM   #5449
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How did this work pre-Schengen and pre-Euro?
Also, are the local dialects of Dutch and German mutually intelligible?
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 04:26 AM   #5450
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Interesting report from the only Dutch tripoint.
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 07:13 PM   #5451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo
How did this work pre-Schengen and pre-Euro?
Also, are the local dialects of Dutch and German mutually intelligible?
I have been here before Schangen as well, but have never seen any police or whatsoever here. Pre-Euro was not a problem, around te border it was mostly possible to pay in all currencies.

As far as I know people on all 3 sides of the borders speak a dialect which can be understood by the other people, even considering that we have here also a tripoint of languages (Dutch, German, French).
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Last edited by Palance; December 3rd, 2011 at 08:30 PM.
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 08:14 PM   #5452
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Thanks Palance. I am visiting Maastricht-Aachen (mainly borders) area this month and see it's worth to pay a visit.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #5453
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Some more around Vaals/Aachen


Grensstraat
. This is a side street from the border crossing where the German B1 and the Dutch N278 meet.

Looking from the Netherlands towards Germany



Looking back towards the Maastrichterlaan. The street is Dutch, everything left of it is German.


Also Vaals: A bridge for cyclists and pedestrians, named after a sport event .


The bridge itself, no border makers here.


Lemiers: This village is mainly Dutch, but there is a German part, seperated by the Selzerbeek or Senzerbach. It is not possible to cross the border here by car, but it can again be done by cycle or by foot.
Seen from the Dutch side, Germany is at the other side.


On the border (NL right, DE left)


Seen from German side.


Bridges are numbered by the Germans..


Border marker on the Dutch side


Information


Again the water: Taken from NL side, DE at the right side of the water


The border crossing between Vaals (NL) and Gemmenich (DE). Apart from the Vaalserberg, it is the highest border crossing in the Netherlands.



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Last edited by Palance; December 4th, 2011 at 02:19 PM.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 03:44 PM   #5454
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Sorry to interrupt your fascinating report, but looking around (on map) of this area I found an interesting German(?) road. It is numbered 258 and for some 3 kilometres cuts Belgian territory. There is one small settlement along it called Fringshaus which is within Raeren[B] postal area, however, by phone it is accessible using Roetgen[D] local telecommunication's network.

Hopefully, I understood German source of info well.
Zwischen Monschau und Roetgen führt die B 258 für etwa 3 km über belgisches Staatsgebiet. Von dieser Straße gibt es keinen Anschluss an das belgische Straßennetz. An diesem Abschnitt liegt das Fringshaus, das postalisch zu Raeren, Belgien (Postleitzahl 4730), aber fernmeldetechnisch zum Ortsnetz Roetgen (Vorwahl 02471) gehört

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Old December 4th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #5455
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Similar to former N274 in the Netherlands which ran through German territory with no intersections until it was transferred to the government of Nordrhein-Westfalen.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 04:26 PM   #5456
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Or Osimo Street, a Slovenian road which cuts into Italian territory with no exits.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 04:40 PM   #5457
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In Switzerland we have this too. On StreetView you can see the border. Link
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Old December 4th, 2011, 05:28 PM   #5458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71
Sorry to interrupt your fascinating report, but looking around (on map) of this area I found an interesting German(?) road. It is numbered 258 and for some 3 kilometres cuts Belgian territory.
I have some pics - including one of the moment you are entering Belgium fromthe south - the sign is like you are entering a built-up area

Former railwaytrack Vennbahn (which is co-responsible for the odd situation there)


Entering Belgium


On the German road, but the forests left and right are Belgium. There is indeed no (legal) side road.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 09:11 PM   #5459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic20T View Post
In Switzerland we have this too. On StreetView you can see the border. Link
There is another one in Switzerland, actually it's Swiss road in France near Basel:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroAir...house-Freiburg


Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
I have some pics - including one of the moment you are entering Belgium fromthe south - the sign is like you are entering a built-up area
Thanks Palance. That "Belgien" sign is kind of strange.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 11:17 PM   #5460
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Last edited by Nordic20T; December 15th, 2011 at 11:45 PM.
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