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Old June 5th, 2008, 08:24 AM   #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardmacha View Post
Ireland is also one of the few remaining examples, perhaps Cyprus is the other one, with a border inside a country. Given the changes elsewhere in Europe it is odd that this common travel area is much less satisfactory than Schengen for non EU citizens, as there is no common visa, as the previous example of the Chinese lady indicated.

This is one view (from Sabre website) the sign with miles in the foreground is in Northern Ireland, this is an odd sign as it has only the ROI road number. The speed limit sign is the border and the sign behind that has the distances in Km follwed by a "speed limit in Km per Hour sign"



On small roads there is usually no marking of any sort, but the conversion of the Republic of Ireland to Km speed limits about 3 years ago meant that some speed limit signs appeared when travelling southwards.
Not only that, but there is also a money change. Northern Ireland = Ł, Republic of Ireland = €.

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Old June 6th, 2008, 02:48 PM   #562
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Well, yes, having different measurements and different currencies are quite normal when you go from one country to another!
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Old June 6th, 2008, 11:22 PM   #563
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But this is all the same country, one in two different States. Nowadays in Europe having different currencies is no longer all that usual and only a handful of places in the world use anything other than metric measure. Even in the UK you will be prosecuted for selling goods using other units, why should roads be any different?
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Old June 7th, 2008, 05:25 PM   #564
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It ISN'T the same country. The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are NOT the same country. N Ireland is sovereign territory of the UK, and that is why there is a land border and a currency change.

That is the fact of the matter and not a political stance by anyone; that's just how it is at this time.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 05:34 PM   #565
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Ireland was a country when Britain had control of all of it and remains a country when Britain only has control of part of it, just as France was a country when partially or completely occupied by Germany, although not an independent country. Northern Ireland is indeed part of the UK, but the UK is not a country, it is a State composed of 3 countries and a bit of another one.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:39 PM   #566
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Hey, I have an idea. Why don't all those British subjects that still dream about independence (e.g. N. Ireland and Scotland) switch their roads to metric system? At least, it would be a good start and an opportunity to be different (besides accent)
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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:45 PM   #567
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I probably shouldn't meddle in this, but personally I believe that defining countries differently than the internationally accepted borders is incredibly problematic and dangerous. For instance, Eastern Preussia and other areas of present day Poland, Russia and Eastern Europe was inhabitated by Germans for many centuries. Would you still argue that it is part of the country Germany although it no longer is part of the state? This is nonsense. Cyprus is different. It does not have an internationally accepted border, just a truce line.

It is of course different with nations, which can live in many states, and there are of course many Irish living in Northern Ireland. In a few decades, they will be in majority, and who knows, maybe NI will be part of the republic at some point.

BTW: Regarding the mile/km issue, I once had a quite bad experience in Ireland. Since I was in Ireland I supposed that my road book stated the distances in kms, but in fact they were in miles, and I arrived terribly late at my destination.....

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; June 7th, 2008 at 10:55 PM.
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Old June 8th, 2008, 09:59 PM   #568
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Some pics of the dutch-german border crossing A12/A3 near Beek/Elten. Dirty window, so quality is not so high.

Coming from NL:
[IMG]http://i30.************/el6s0p.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i32.************/wbw6z8.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i29.************/ibce3q.jpg[/IMG]
On the left you can see a small pole, indicating the real border.
[IMG]http://i30.************/15n29mh.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i31.************/20kvzg0.jpg[/IMG]

Coming from DE:
[IMG]http://i30.************/1jrcr9.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i29.************/t8u3df.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i32.************/21ka6ao.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i29.************/imntlf.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i31.************/2cwoc9u.jpg[/IMG]
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Old June 8th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #569
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i like those places where are visible changes of horizontal signalization style between 2 countries
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Old June 8th, 2008, 10:43 PM   #570
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There's no EU-stared country name signs?
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Old June 8th, 2008, 11:10 PM   #571
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There are, but they are not clearly visible on the pics.
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Old June 8th, 2008, 11:31 PM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardmacha View Post
Ireland was a country when Britain had control of all of it and remains a country when Britain only has control of part of it, just as France was a country when partially or completely occupied by Germany, although not an independent country. Northern Ireland is indeed part of the UK, but the UK is not a country, it is a State composed of 3 countries and a bit of another one.
Ireland was a part of Britain at that point, when the larger part decided to leave, it was not controlled by Britain, which suggests that people in England. Scotland & Wales had a control over it which was not reciprocated. And the UK is a country, in most proper definitions, as is the Republic of Ireland.
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Old June 8th, 2008, 11:34 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Hey, I have an idea. Why don't all those British subjects that still dream about independence (e.g. N. Ireland and Scotland) switch their roads to metric system? At least, it would be a good start and an opportunity to be different (besides accent)
What are you going about? What 'British subjects'?
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Old June 9th, 2008, 06:25 PM   #574
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Quote:
Ireland was a part of Britain at that point
No. The Irish Sea was between them and had been since the Ice Age.
Because Britain ruled Ireland did not mean that Britain became Ireland. Occupiers like to say, we invaded you, so you no longer exist, but countries do still exist, they just aren't independent. Has Iraq become part of Britain because Britain invaded it?

Quote:
when the larger part decided to leave
You attempt to give the impression that some agreement previously existed and that Ireland changed its mind. Britain invaded Ireland, subsequently achieved "agreement" from puppet institutions on a union and when the franchise became semi-representative and it became impossible to deny that Ireland wanted nothing to do with the UK, Britain retained control for another 50 years until that became more difficult when violence broke out.

Oddly enough Britain is critical of other countries doing this kind of thing, while excusing itself.

Quote:
And the UK is a country
If the UK is a country, what then is Scotland?

I am not sure what all of this has to do with this forum. Ireland may be one country but everyone agrees that it has two political components with different road signs and so forth, which are better the topic of discussion here.
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Old June 9th, 2008, 06:35 PM   #575
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The border A12 (NL) - A3 (DE) where you can see where the different asphalt/markings are used (taken towards Germany)


And the A76 (NL) - A4 (DE) exactly at the border:


On that border, when zoomed in, you can see a very small end-of-NL sign


Another one: A77 (NL) - A57 (DE), again facing Germany


A smaller bordercrossing between Belgium and the Netherlands near Stramproy (southwest of Weert). Border marker at the right of the road
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Old June 9th, 2008, 10:29 PM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardmacha View Post
No. The Irish Sea was between them and had been since the Ice Age.
Because Britain ruled Ireland did not mean that Britain became Ireland. Occupiers like to say, we invaded you, so you no longer exist, but countries do still exist, they just aren't independent. Has Iraq become part of Britain because Britain invaded it?



You attempt to give the impression that some agreement previously existed and that Ireland changed its mind. Britain invaded Ireland, subsequently achieved "agreement" from puppet institutions on a union and when the franchise became semi-representative and it became impossible to deny that Ireland wanted nothing to do with the UK, Britain retained control for another 50 years until that became more difficult when violence broke out.

Oddly enough Britain is critical of other countries doing this kind of thing, while excusing itself.



If the UK is a country, what then is Scotland?

I am not sure what all of this has to do with this forum. Ireland may be one country but everyone agrees that it has two political components with different road signs and so forth, which are better the topic of discussion here.
The Irish Sea has nothing to do with it. By that logic, the entire Eurasian mainland is one country, Corsica isn't France etc. Ireland was an integral part of the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland', a merger of two former kingdoms, the former being a merger of the kingdoms of England and Scotland. Ireland had elected representatives, like the rest if the UK, and had exactly the same status as England, Scotland & Wales. If by 'Britain', you mean the former nation and kingdom of Great Britain, then no, it didn't invade Ireland. England had done, and earlier Scotland, centuries previous, and the Kingdom of Ireland was largely subserviant to the English, and later, Great British crown, but the merger between the Kingdom of Ireland and the Kingdom of Great Britain was a result of legislation passed in both parliements, and was not a result of an invasion. Your Iraq analogy is daft and illustrates the many common misconceptions people have.

As for what a country is, in real life terms, Scotland isn't a country, neither is the island of Ireland. However, you can call them that in certain contexts if you wish, as 'country' essentially is really just another word for 'land', as in other languages, it hasn't developed a link with the concept of nation or sovereign state.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:32 PM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardmacha View Post
Oddly enough Britain is critical of other countries doing this kind of thing, while excusing itself.
What the ancestors of the citizens of a particular state did is not the responsibility of those currently inhabiting it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth View Post
As for what a country is, in real life terms, Scotland isn't a country, neither is the island of Ireland. However, you can call them that in certain contexts if you wish, as 'country' essentially is really just another word for 'land', as in other languages, it hasn't developed a link with the concept of nation or sovereign state.
Country is really a geographical term, as is "land". In everyday use people use them to mean the same as state, but the UK exemplifies a situation where that's not straightforward.. The UK is a state (and a country), but the "constituent countries" are still countries. Ireland (Republic of+NI) can also be described as a country, but one which is split into two states. Similarly, Germany is Deutshland, and the constituent states are länder.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 05:48 PM   #578
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I wonder if you have recent pics of following border crossings:
  1. SLO/HR 111/B8 near Portoroż
  2. SLO/A A1 Spielfeld
  3. Karawankentunnel
  4. SLO/I Trieste - Koper E 751
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Old June 19th, 2008, 04:38 PM   #579
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Spain/France border. Somport tunnel.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance...r-le-tunn_auto
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Old June 19th, 2008, 07:27 PM   #580
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Cool video.
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