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Old September 17th, 2012, 01:59 AM   #6541
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Apart of this article... it is not easy to enter in that rock. As military territory, there is not a border with police on it but a military in the gate.

Only people with an authorization given by Melilla army management are allowed to enter there.

And some Spanish tourist who are in Morocco and try to go there... must go back.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 08:32 AM   #6542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza

A military praesidium against a thriving community of 30.000. Apples and oranges
LOL
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Old September 17th, 2012, 11:27 AM   #6543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Would you "just give" a piece of your nation to others?
a piece of a nation we dont talk about a spanish history museum or so,this is just a stupid piece of a rock that nobody can use.i bet that 99% of the people in spain doesn´t even know that this rock is spanish and if they do they dont care about even if the rock sinks in the sea
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Old September 17th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #6544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagor666 View Post
a piece of a nation we dont talk about a spanish history museum or so,this is just a stupid piece of a rock that nobody can use.i bet that 99% of the people in spain doesn´t even know that this rock is spanish and if they do they dont care about even if the rock sinks in the sea


Outside military people maybe 99,99%

Only "Chafarinas" islands are known. It could be possible because a nice movie where the end of the story is in those islands.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 12:21 PM   #6545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagor666 View Post
a piece of a nation we dont talk about a spanish history museum or so,this is just a stupid piece of a rock that nobody can use.i bet that 99% of the people in spain doesn´t even know that this rock is spanish and if they do they dont care about even if the rock sinks in the sea
So? Give it away just because people don't know about its existence? You've got a very dismissive idea about nation integrity.


No piece of land is less important than others.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 12:59 PM   #6546
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Well, one could argue that its not worth fighting about, if it doesn't have a strategic purpose, or if keeping it is not in the national interest for any of its citizens.

I don't really have an opinion on this...
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Old September 17th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #6547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
So? Give it away just because people don't know about its existence? You've got a very dismissive idea about nation integrity.


No piece of land is less important than others.
well,then in a crissis you can have this rock and i choose a ha of agricultural land that does not lay on the end of the world
this rock realy could tomorrow sink and nobody would care
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Old September 17th, 2012, 03:46 PM   #6548
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Or this one...
https://maps.google.es/?ll=35.964669...52692&t=h&z=10

And it is part of Almeria municipality. Any other apart of people working in town hall know about that island?

Geographically is African (when you have an island you consider it is from the continent where it is nearer. As well as it is a little more near to Africa than Europe, it is an African island)
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:06 PM   #6549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Geographically is African (when you have an island you consider it is from the continent where it is nearer. As well as it is a little more near to Africa than Europe, it is an African island)
That's not true. An island is considered part of a continent if it belongs to its continental rise.

The island of Pantelleria is nearer to Africa than to Italy, but it's considered European nonetheless. Regarding the Pelagie Islands, on the other hand, Lampedusa and Lampione are African, while Linosa is European, even if all of them are nearer to Africa than Europe.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #6550
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I read the criteria I wrote.
Anyway... do not know where that island in the middle of the sea rise...
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #6551
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About the Velez de la Gomera Rock... it is just a post because it is the smallest border all world wide. It wasn't a border until an earquake that made the rock island as a peninsula.

There are many little islands that sometimes you ask yourself it if serves for anything.

In the case of the Spanish islands near Morocco (please moderators, set as Banned to any Spanish military for a while... ) I really think it serves for nothing. The two cities have their life. In fact Melilla is part of Spain before other zones in the European continent. Ceuta was initially Portuguese (yeah, close to Spain but Portuguese). Later there was the same king for both countries and when Portugal got a new king and independence, Ceuta prefered to remain Spanish.

But the other islands... I do not find any use for them. In fact they are not used even as an army base (being near of continental Spain and close to Melilla it do not worths).

Should it have an use... maybe touristic, or at least, keeping the environment. There are some of them that seems to be interesting from that point of view.


But it is not they only case about it. For instance, a little island between Canary Islands and Madeira is Portuguese and Portugal remains a few population and control there.
There is no claim about that island... but Portuguese government keeps a little population there.

I read about some of them in Central America. Countries with military in the middle of nowhere, just only because a small island.

The photo was only to show the smallest border in the world (the blue rope). The smallest that is open to traffic is at Gibraltar (iffffff... we do not consider Macau, where there is a control but same country at all)
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:35 PM   #6552
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By the way, about islands...

This is El Hierro island, the southern and smallest in Canary island.
https://maps.google.es/?ll=27.676231...705383&t=h&z=9

Only a little more than 10.000 inhabitants there.

One local government (one island at Canary, one local government)
Delegation of Canary government
Three different municipalities
Delegation of several minitries and a lot of administrations. Let's think in any administration, doesn't matter if about traffic, economy ministry or... a lot of delegations
Some schools
One high school
One little hospital
One harbour with personnel for it
One airport with ist personnel
Customs at airport and harbour


and so on...

For instance, last autumn a volcano brusted into the sea just only 1,5 km away from the village of La Restinga (very curious... the southern village in Spain and knowed only because the vulcano) and for six months I think that half of scientific people of Spain was there with that phenomena (a new vulcano that made a mountain only 500m under waters... a little more an a new island)



In resume... how many people work for any administration in this island?. There is only 10.000 people


And we are talking about an island with population, hospital and high school...


(PS, the major of my city was judge before political career. He can say he has been overall the youngest judge in Spain, with only 26 years old. First destination he had was the near island of La Gomera)
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #6553
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Another curiosity about "borders in islands"

This is Market island, between Finland and Sweeden



For a long time, the phare was in Finland and more or less 50-50% for every country.
Phare was built by Finland in 1885 in where they though it was its territory.

Some years ago they found that they were wrong!!!, Phare was in Sweeden.

And several problems:

1- Phare had no sense for Sweeden but interesting for Finland
2- They did not want to change the border in the sea coast. No special interest on the island... but let's remember that the water territory depends on countryside territory. So any change there will make part of water changing of country (and it is an important area for fishing)

After all they found how to change the border inside the island, making the phare inside Finland, but the borders in the coast remaining with no change


Solution?

This one:



Sorry, I did not find a map in English. Finland in the right, Sweeden in the left and the brown area is the phare.


And... the Swedish area is divided into part of two different provinces...





PS. Should a forumer goes there and makes photo about that international crossing, I think he will receive a very big applause!!!
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Old September 17th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #6554
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By 'phare' I presume you mean lighthouse?

And what do you mean by but let's remember that the water territory depends on countryside territory. So any change there will make part of water changing of country?
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Old September 17th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #6555
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Yeah..

I mean that in the way perpendicular to the coast, looking to the right in that island, it is Finish territory and looking to the left is Swedish territory.

They wanted to keep the lighthouse in Finland (they build it.... in the wrong side, and Sweeden had no interest on it).

If they change the border just 10m right or left there will be a 10m wide water strip that will change the country at the same time.

So they exchanged territories inside the island, making the lighthouse inside Finland but the points where the borders arrived the coast where exactly the same.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #6556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Another curiosity about "borders in islands"

This is Market island, between Finland and Sweeden



For a long time, the phare was in Finland and more or less 50-50% for every country.
Phare was built by Finland in 1885 in where they though it was its territory.

Some years ago they found that they were wrong!!!, Phare was in Sweeden.

And several problems:

1- Phare had no sense for Sweeden but interesting for Finland
2- They did not want to change the border in the sea coast. No special interest on the island... but let's remember that the water territory depends on countryside territory. So any change there will make part of water changing of country (and it is an important area for fishing)

After all they found how to change the border inside the island, making the phare inside Finland, but the borders in the coast remaining with no change


Solution?

This one:



Sorry, I did not find a map in English. Finland in the right, Sweeden in the left and the brown area is the phare.


And... the Swedish area is divided into part of two different provinces...





PS. Should a forumer goes there and makes photo about that international crossing, I think he will receive a very big applause!!!
are there border controlls for vehicles?
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Old September 17th, 2012, 08:04 PM   #6557
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Nice question.

In the blog I read about it, they said no rocks on islands were more than 2 meters over sea level. Looking at the lighthouse, seems thrue!!
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Old September 17th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #6558
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Timoteo Dominguez is an island... besides Martin Garcia island. They are just in the end of Rio de la Plata (by the way, has this river any translation into English such Silver River)

North, Uruguay, south Argentina.

Because some sands on a little canal, the two islands are now the same.

It is almost impossible to arrive the side of Uruguay and the REALLY border (this is, at least sand, no water) is very narrow.

To the Argentinian side it is easy to arrive... it has a little airport!


In fact, it is the second narrowest border all world wide after the Velez de la Gomera rock (Spain-Morocco)




https://maps.google.es/?ll=-34.17385...42272&t=h&z=15
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Old September 17th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #6559
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To answer your question, River Plate

That's a pretty cool island!
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Old September 18th, 2012, 01:32 AM   #6560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
About the Velez de la Gomera Rock... it is just a post because it is the smallest border all world wide.
This border is only about 60 metres long.
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