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Old April 9th, 2013, 09:50 PM   #7181
MattiG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Linguistic issue...... why isn't a border area close to Russia with a sign in Russian (it is written in 5 languages but not Russian)
Russians know what is expected on the other side of border, and therefore they have no interest in tampering the zone. They do not find the zone as an exotic place to visit.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 10:10 PM   #7182
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Greek/turkish border at Kipi/Ipsala point. The picture is taken just on the border line in the middle of the bridge of Evros/Meric river.

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Old April 9th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Finland (I'm not sure about other countries) has established a so called Border Zone, reaching up to 3 km from the (Russian) border itself. Visiting the border zone for purposes other than crossing the border (which of course can only be done at certain points) requires a permit.

Not only is the actual border heavily supervised, so is also the outer limit of the border zone. When tourists stop there, just taking pictures of the border zone signs (not intending to actually enter the zone), they may expect company in a couple of minutes.

So such a picture could not be taken here...
Isn't against EU laws limiting the freedom of movement within the Schengen area (the last inch of Finland belongs to the Schengen area)? Are there houses or other structures within the border zone?

I read on Wikipedia that the Hungarian city of Szombathely (I've been there so I read some things) was closed to non-residents Hungarians during the cold war because it was easy to flee to Austria from there.
I read on this thread that Spanish citizens, not only weren't allowed to go abroad during Franco regime, but they also couldn't go too close to France without leaving Spain.
Those countries were dictatorial regimes so this isn't surprising, but I didn't know that estabilishing a closed border zone on the inner side of the outer Schengen border was allowed by EU treaties.
Are there other such situations in Europe? Maybe at PL-RUS, PL-BY, LT-BY, LT-RUS, LV-RUS or EST-RUS borders?
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Old April 9th, 2013, 10:53 PM   #7184
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Maybe not many people know that there is a place where we can cross the outer Schengen border without realizing it:

This Estonian road crosses two small pieces of Russia. In this sections there are no junctions with other Russian roads. There are no border controls, you can drive through but you aren't allowed to stop inside Russia and pedestrians\bycicles aren't allowed.
The village of Lutepaa isn't connected by road to the rest of Estonia.
Other info and pics here.
http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ances...cs/Estonia.htm
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Old April 9th, 2013, 10:55 PM   #7185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I read on this thread that Spanish citizens, not only weren't allowed to go abroad during Franco regime, but they also couldn't go too close to France without leaving Spain.

They couldn't.

The Interior affair ministry invented the ID card just to make an internal control for citizens. In this way they gave a passport only to those citizens they specially allowed to go abroad. With a passport they could move away (even if custom controls were very strong as well as they were very unusual).

So, citizen allowed to cross the border: ID card + passport
citizen not allowed to cross the border (almost all the citizens): ID card only

ID card remains because it is much easier to keep in the pocket than passport... and in fact, Spanish passport number is your ID card number.


And for approaching the border you needed a special visa. Not allowed to cross the border, just only to go near the border.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #7186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Maybe not many people know that there is a place where we can cross the outer Schengen border without realizing it:
There are many such places on the Slovenian-Croatian border.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 11:59 PM   #7187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
There are many such places on the Slovenian-Croatian border.
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=16
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=16
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=16
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=16
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=16
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=14
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Buje,+C...oazia&t=m&z=15

From the Adriatic to Hungary. Unfortunately there's not streetview so you cannot see what roads are open and if there are signs.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 01:30 AM   #7188
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According to Spanish documents to approach the border while the dictatory age I found this:





And free translation:

- It is given by the "Dirección General de la Seguridad". It seems that no translation required... but I would say that it was something similar (or worse) that Russian KGB
- That person was authorised to be in this area
https://maps.google.es/maps?q=la+mol...La+Molina&z=11
- He lived in Barcelona (people living in the boarding area didn't require that pass)
- It was given in Gerona (province where that area is located, even if it is not in the middle way Barcelona-La Molina)
- Given December 31st, 1944, just five and a half years later Spanish civil war was finished and Second World War still on going.
- One peseta paid for only one month pass (today that's 0,06 euro but I do not know how much money was that in those years... seems too much)
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Old April 10th, 2013, 04:38 AM   #7189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Are there houses or other structures within the border zone?
There are houses. The residents of those have permits and officially they should have those permits with them whenever going out. (But since the population is few, the guards probably get to know them soon anyway.)

Those visiting such houses must apply for the permit. Guards may confirm the visit from the residents. So no surprise visits here.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 11:50 AM   #7190
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US-Mexico border fence goes into the sea!

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Old April 10th, 2013, 12:10 PM   #7191
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Poland - Kaliningrad (Russia) - here http://goo.gl/maps/hacHX

Larger pictures on Panoramio



https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/45336519
https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/37213594


https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/74919341
https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/37213586
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Old April 10th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #7192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Maybe not many people know that there is a place where we can cross the outer Schengen border without realizing it:
...
This Estonian road crosses two small pieces of Russia. In this sections there are no junctions with other Russian roads. There are no border controls, you can drive through but you aren't allowed to stop inside Russia and pedestrians\bycicles aren't allowed.
...
You can even find this on Streetview!

http://goo.gl/maps/jm656

That should be spot 4 on the map, there is a sign forbidding pedestrians and going on you can see a russian boundary post on the right.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 08:27 PM   #7193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophorus View Post
You can even find this on Streetview!

http://goo.gl/maps/jm656

That should be spot 4 on the map, there is a sign forbidding pedestrians and going on you can see a russian boundary post on the right.
I found the same thing today! Maybe the only spot in Russia where there is street view??
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Old April 10th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #7194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScraperDude View Post
I found the same thing today! Maybe the only spot in Russia where there is street view??
Nearly every town in Russia has Streetview
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Old April 10th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #7195
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I noticed that!!!


If I had to make a guess I would say that a google car has been inside Russia and photos are taken but still not in the network.

I remember when Andorra hadn't any google street pictures. They drove over the whole country but didn't upload them... but after crossing Andorra you can enter again into Spain and they uploaded those pictures.
Several months later they uploaded all Andorra's pictures at the same time.


In the Russian case seems that Google has some areas with pictures but tries not to show them. And in this case they didn't point the exact border!.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #7196
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Moscow - Sankt Petersburg is
http://goo.gl/maps/Ezra3
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Old April 10th, 2013, 10:44 PM   #7197
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Are dirt roads between towns still common in Baltic republics?
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Old April 10th, 2013, 10:56 PM   #7198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Isn't against EU laws limiting the freedom of movement within the Schengen area (the last inch of Finland belongs to the Schengen area)?
Of course it is not. Think about military areas and other similar restricted areas. The Schengen agreement really is not about forbidding restricted areas but about removing routine checks at the borders.

Quote:
Are there houses or other structures within the border zone?
Yes there are. The length of the border is 1200+ kilometers. So, the frontier zone is a large area of land owned by somebody. The residents and the land owners carry a permanent entry permit, as well those working regularly on the area. The others will receive a fixed-term permit if the reason to enter the frontier zone is acceptable. The permit is usually granted as a routine. Therefore, it is a question of a controlled area rather than of a restricted one.

The respective legislation was renewed in 2005, and many older funny and strict regulations were deleted. In many areas, the zone is changed to much narrower in order to make things easier by reduced bureaucracy.

For example, arriving to Virolahti by boat required earlier a permit. The frontier zone was made very narrow in 2010. The distance between the center of the fairway and the border itself is about 70 metres. The width of the frontier zone is about 20-30 metres in minimum, as seen in the nautical maps:



Earlier. The bold dashed line is the frontier zone outer limit. The -+-+-+- line is the border.



Current. The fairways are on the unrestricted area. The frontier zone is marked by yellow spar buoys every about 50 metres.

Another example of relieved regulations is the road leading to the eastmost point of the continental EU. As described my earlier post http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=94365703 the road is now excluded from the frontier zone, and it is allowed to visit the shore of the lake where the frontier pole is. By this change, the local frontier guard office avoids writing about 3000 permits annually.

Last edited by MattiG; April 10th, 2013 at 11:22 PM.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #7199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Are dirt roads between towns still common in Baltic republics?
They are quite common in Latvia and Estonia the same as in Sweden, where you can drive miles (Swedish mile = 10 kilometres) on such tracks.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 12:24 AM   #7200
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Fresh news.

Venezuela - Colombia border is closed nowadays.

It seems to be because politicians reasons. This sunday there are elections in Venezuela and Prime Minister is to close borders to avoid Venezuelan citizens living in Colombia to return and voting to other person (usually those people will not vote him).

So he close border with Colombia until Sunday night.
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