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Old April 30th, 2013, 02:42 PM   #7301
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
Jerusalem is not a capital.... Tel Aviv is!
According to Israeli Fundamental Chart, Jerusalem is the capital.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 03:21 PM   #7302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Jerusalem is de facto not divided. And according to current rulers (i.e. the Jews) the city is de iure, too, undivided - although a vast majority of the world has another opnion about this question.
But, getting back to our topic, there are no fences and no border crossing posts inside Jerusalem, the city is, by the fact, unified.
Aren't there checkpoints between Israel and the Palestinian territories?
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Old April 30th, 2013, 03:31 PM   #7303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Aren't there checkpoints between Israel and the Palestinian territories?
There are. But, according to Izraeli laws, the whole, undivided territory of Jerusalem belongs to Izrael so taht checkpoints are placed at the border between Jerusalem and the rest of Palestinian territories.
Check e.g. this point, it is directly at the border between both parts of the city. Clearly no checkpoint here.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #7304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
According to Israeli Fundamental Chart, Jerusalem is the capital.
Internationally, Jerusalem is not recognized as the capital of Israel.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 04:25 PM   #7305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
Internationally, Jerusalem is not recognized as the capital of Israel.
So what? If the international community wouldn't recognize Rome as capital of Italy, Rome would be capital nonetheless.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 04:31 PM   #7306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
There are. But, according to Izraeli laws, the whole, undivided territory of Jerusalem belongs to Izrael so taht checkpoints are placed at the border between Jerusalem and the rest of Palestinian territories.
Check e.g. this point, it is directly at the border between both parts of the city. Clearly no checkpoint here.
So there are no checkpoints within Jerusalem itself?

Last edited by Verso; April 30th, 2013 at 04:39 PM.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #7307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
Internationally, Jerusalem is not recognized as the capital of Israel.
1., I think, no one, except for the state of Izrael, ha the right to decide what city is the capital of that state.
2., Recognized or not recognized, Jerusalem is de facto the capital city of Izrael. If, for some specific reason, from tomorrow morning on the UN will not recognize Berlin as the capital of Germany - Berlin will remain the the capital of Germany.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #7308
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
So there are no checkpoints within Jerusalem itself?
No, not any. There's even a tram crossing the line once in every six minutes :-) However, there are checkings on board: you're checked whether you have a ticket ;-)
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Old April 30th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #7309
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You don't really understand what's going on. Northern Cyprus is not internationally recognized. Because Turkey recognizes it, it doesn't mean it is an actual state.
In the case of Jerusalem, there is a problem too!

When there is no international (UN) recognition, there is a problem...
If you can't see it, you need to learn about politics.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #7310
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Sarajevo is also divided in a way, but there are no checkpoints between the Federation of B&H and the Republic of Srpska either.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #7311
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We all understand it perfectly. And we all know that facts are not depending on recognitions. The Earth was several centuries long not recognized going around the Sun - it was going around the Sun nevertheless. Northern Cyprus is actually a state and Jerusalem is actually the capital city of Izrael - recognized or not.

And, please, let's stop this off-topic discussion.

What is on-topic: no border crossing inside Jerusalem, the city is de facto undivided and the line which is called by some people and organizations as 'border', can be crossed actually without realizing you've crossed it. However, there are checkpoints between Jerusalem and the rest of the Palestine, although it is internationally not recognized as a border.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #7312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
We all understand it perfectly. And we all know that facts are not depending on recognitions. The Earth was several centuries long not recognized going around the Sun - it was going around the Sun nevertheless. Northern Cyprus is actually a state and Jerusalem is actually the capital city of Izrael - recognized or not.

And, please, let's stop this off-topic discussion.

What is on-topic: no border crossing inside Jerusalem, the city is de facto undivided and the line which is called by some people and organizations as 'border', can be crossed actually without realizing you've crossed it. However, there are checkpoints between Jerusalem and the rest of the Palestine, although it is internationally not recognized as a border.
I strongly advise you to think before you post. You are wrong.

Northern Cyprus is occupied territory, against international law and against UN resolutions. It is not a state. Only the Republic of Cyprus is a State, not Northern Cypriot occupied lands. If you don't know international law and politics, it is your problem, not mine.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #7313
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I agree with Attus.

And the reason Nicosia is in the thread, is because recognized or not, there is a border with real fence and checkpoints/passings.
Although the border is not internationally recognized, it makes Cyprus' capital divided in reality, what doesn't happen in Sarajevo or Jerusalem, as the border in there is not physical.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #7314
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I also agree with Attus. Northern Cyprus formally doesn't exist.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #7315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
Northern Cyprus is occupied territory, against international law and against UN resolutions. It is not a state. Only the Republic of Cyprus is a State, not Northern Cypriot occupied lands.
Then why did you post Nicosia in this thread?
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Old April 30th, 2013, 05:23 PM   #7316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
You don't really understand what's going on. Northern Cyprus is not internationally recognized. Because Turkey recognizes it, it doesn't mean it is an actual state.
In the case of Jerusalem, there is a problem too!
There's a substantial difference you obviously fail to see.

Deciding which city is capital of a state is an internal affair, and no foreign country has a right to say anything.

A country invading another one and unilaterally annexing territory and part of the capital city is an international affair, so what UN says is very important.

So, as you can see, things are different and not comparable.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #7317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
For the same reason the flag of Turkey is placed on the other side, while Cyprus is NOT Turkish territory....
Is there any other reason than "they put a flag too"?

No one claims Northern Cyprus as part of Turkey, not even Turkey itself - so why is there a Turkish flag?

Also no one claims Cyprus or any part thereof as part of Greece, not even Greece itself - so why is there a Greek flag?
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Old April 30th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #7318
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There is a neutral zone in the middle of those countries or whatever they are.

In the middle... there is an old airport, and the famous picture is a plane in the middle of nothing (neutral zone, nobody does anything)


Wanna read more?

Sorry... it is not in English but these pictures are quite interesting

(I knew I had read about it and finally I found)


http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com/2...n-el-tiempo-2/
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Old April 30th, 2013, 08:47 PM   #7319
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Probably because both communities in Cyprus use the Greek and Turkish flags as symbols of their ethnicity and not as state ones.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #7320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Is there any other reason than "they put a flag too"?

No one claims Northern Cyprus as part of Turkey, not even Turkey itself - so why is there a Turkish flag?

Also no one claims Cyprus or any part thereof as part of Greece, not even Greece itself - so why is there a Greek flag?
Actually, Northern Cyprus is occupied by Armed Forces of Turkey so Turkey DOES claim Northern Cyprus as a part of it.
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