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Old July 17th, 2013, 06:10 PM   #7921
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Old July 17th, 2013, 06:41 PM   #7922
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no schengen border between spain and andorra..


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Old July 17th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #7923
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border france-andorra


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Old July 17th, 2013, 07:00 PM   #7924
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Nice pics.

In the second one, the custom signal is in Spanish and just says Stop.

The Pas de la Casa border custom doesn't exist anymore. Furthermore, the Envalira tunnel takes the cross inside France (both sides of the tunnel are in Andorra but one of them quite near to France) and it is mandatory to go via France from Pas de la Casa to any other place in Andorra (except if you go via mountain pass, 2605m or if you go via a special road for tunnel service inside Andorra)

But Andorra has customs even with France and Spain. With Spain is in the same border, the same point in the picture but enlarged.

With France is inside French territory several kilometres away. Be sure you will be stopped there to check your baggage and avoid smuggling because taxes there are terribly cheap.

In the case of Pas de la Casa, a "line" marks were Andorra ends. Until that line you will see a lot of shops and other facilities... if they are there, they will pay Andorran taxes. If they are 10 metres away, they will pay French taxes.

In the case of Spain there is not that case. The nearest shopping centre is about 1,5 km to the border.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #7925
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Why does Andorra have an EU-sign at the border?
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Old July 17th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #7926
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e-f border in puigcerdá





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Old July 17th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #7927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
Why does Andorra have an EU-sign at the border?
This is not an "EU" sign, but an European sign/flag.

For example, the Council of Europe also uses that flag/sign (and it does since 1955, i.e. long before the creation of the EU or even the EEC). BTW, Andorra of course is a member of the Council of Europe.




The same for the European Court of Human Rights (which has 47 members, including Andorra, just like the Council of Europe):

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Old July 17th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #7928
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gibraltar border


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1960

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Old July 17th, 2013, 09:09 PM   #7929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VITORIA MAN View Post
no schengen border between spain and andorra..
That's misleading, especially to non-Europeans. Usually when you say "xyz border", you mean its outer border. When you say "Spanish border", you mean border between Spain and a neighboring country (or the entire border of Spain), not between Catalonia and Aragon, for example. The same should apply to the Schengen Area. If you're talking about the Spanish-French border, that's an inner Schengen border. If you're talking about the Spanish-Andorran border, that's an outer Schengen border. So the border between Spain and Andorra definitely is the border of the Schengen Area.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #7930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
This is not an "EU" sign, but an European sign/flag.
Agreed. Let's put it an other way: this is the first non1-EU-state which uses the sign of the council of Europe. I don't know however what the agreements say about the usage of such signs at the borders.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 09:45 PM   #7931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VITORIA MAN View Post


Looking at the last picture...


The house with a red corner is in Andorra, the brigde in the right ahead is Andorran, the houses in the left of that road before the brigde is France. Everything before the house with de red corner is France.

Anything built before that house will pay taxes in France.

Anything built after there will pay taxes in Andorra.


It seems easy to cross but it is really a non-Schengen, non-EU, non-XXX border (to go there from France you have crossed a custom control but crossing from Spain, Spanish police never asked me passport in several times and only onces in Andorra).

In the first picture you can see the former border looking from the house with a red corner.



By the way... take a look to "Os de Civis". It is a 100 people Spanish village that can be arrived only via Andorra.

Andorran government has a treaty to give free way to citizens living there and to emergency vehicles. But in fact they just use the Andorran services because it is much faster. The 100 people will go to Andorran hospitals, schools and so on.
Police and army aren't allowed to cross Andorra to arrive there. So we can call "the village with no law". Last time the police went there was to investigate a natural death and... had to arrive by helicopter without entering into Andorra.

They pay taxes about everyhing done there to the Spanish government (citizen taxes, VAT, society taxes, etc...) but they buy goods in Andorra and arrive there tax free (it is much cheaper to avoid controling those goods, considering the size of the village than having a custom). They can import as much as they want tax free..... but using only in the village. If they climb mountains with their goods it is smuggling. If they want to arrive to the rest of Spain with their goods they will have to cross the main Spain-Andorra border (and be sure that, even there is no passport control indeed, almost 100% of the cars are stopped and asked to check a random baggage to see if you are smuggling)



Take a look to the point where the border is...... because it could be really the only Schengen border with traffic and no customs, no checks and... no signals. The only way to know you have crossed the country is a signal of a natural park that has set the Catalonian government.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #7932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VITORIA MAN View Post
e-f border in puigcerdá






Anyone who is interested in this enclave can have a look in several pages before. Even about a roundabout there is in the middle.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 10:04 PM   #7933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
this is the first non1-EU-state which uses the sign of the council of Europe.
Indeed, AFAIK it is.
I don't know why, but that's maybe because Andorra has a special status (i.e. it's 50% French, 50% Catalan... but 100% independent) .

Speaking of which, the Franco-Andorran border is not "official" since there has never been any treaty establishing precisely this border. BTW, the border was modified in 2001, in order to allow Andorra to build a bridge & a tunnel in the Pas de la Case (with a bilateral treaty this time, regarding this small territory exchange).
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Old July 17th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #7934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
to go there from France you have crossed a custom control
I've been there numerous times, and I have never ever seen any customs control before entering Andorra.... While the opposite (from Andorra back to France) is not really the same, because of the limited quantities of goods (cigarettes and alcohol more precisely) you're allowed to import to France from Andorra. But there isn't customs office because since a while French customs controls on the French soil are done by what we call the "Douane volante" (customs mobile units), and they are allowed to control vehicles, goods, people's identity etc, everywhere inside the French territory + Monaco.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #7935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
Agreed. Let's put it an other way: this is the first non1-EU-state which uses the sign of the council of Europe. I don't know however what the agreements say about the usage of such signs at the borders.
Malta used EU-style license plates even before it joined EU, and Croatia had EU flags hanging from some buildings in Zagreb well before it joined EU.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #7936
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Here is another interesting border:



Franco-Dutch border in Saint-Martin.

© Xavier Maillard
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Old July 17th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #7937
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The interesting thing about that border is that the French part is an outermost region of the EU and therefore carrying the French and EU-jack. The Dutch part of the isle has an OCT-status, it is a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, and therefore carrying its own flag + the flag of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 11:29 PM   #7938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post

Indeed, AFAIK it is.
I don't know why, but that's maybe because Andorra has a special status (i.e. it's 50% French, 50% Catalan... but 100% independent) .

Speaking of which, the Franco-Andorran border is not "official" since there has never been any treaty establishing precisely this border. BTW, the border was modified in 2001, in order to allow Andorra to build a bridge & a tunnel in the Pas de la Case (with a bilateral treaty this time, regarding this small territory exchange).
Not 50% French and Catalan but 50% French and Spanish ·(Catalonia is not a state)

But look at the state heads!

Btw, it is the oldest state in Europe
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Old July 17th, 2013, 11:33 PM   #7939
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During cold war, Czechoslovakia built the border barricades to avoid people running out of the country. A road for border guard became a part of it. Austria built its road for border guard too.

Soon after the fall of iron curtain the border fence were physically tore down and an old railway connection between Bratislava and Vienna has been re-established. Thus two new level crossings were made on one place - one for former Austrian border guard road and another for former Czechoslovakian border guard road running beside.

So there are two different level crossings next to each other:






Photos are from vlaky.net portal
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Old July 17th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #7940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godius View Post
The interesting thing about that border is that the French part is an outermost region of the EU and therefore carrying the French and EU-jack. The Dutch part of the isle has an OCT-status, it is a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, and therefore carrying its own flag + the flag of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
Yes, it's a border between the EU and a territory of an EU member state (Netherlands). The only other such example is the border between Cyprus (EU) and Akrotiri & Dhekelia (UK, but not EU).
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