daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 18th, 2013, 12:44 AM   #7941
Eulanthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes (Received): 411

Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
I've been there numerous times, and I have never ever seen any customs control before entering Andorra.... While the opposite (from Andorra back to France) is not really the same, because of the limited quantities of goods (cigarettes and alcohol more precisely) you're allowed to import to France from Andorra. But there isn't customs office because since a while French customs controls on the French soil are done by what we call the "Douane volante" (customs mobile units), and they are allowed to control vehicles, goods, people's identity etc, everywhere inside the French territory + Monaco.
I'm confused - I know Spain has that quite big (and fairly oppressive) Customs facility for Andorra - but - are you saying that France doesn't have a similar building on the French side?

It seems strange that while Andorra is outside of Schengen, there exists no permanent controls on the French border. From what I know, it seems that the Andorran-Spanish border is far more controlled than the French one.

Either way, it's just yet another sign of how little care the French have for the Schengen and EU border. Mobile controls really don't cut it, especially as there should at least be the opportunity to make a declaration when travelling. What's the justification for not even having a proper facility on the border?

(out of interest - where on earth do Andorran goods get cleared into the EU if there's no border facility there?)
Eulanthe no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 18th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #7942
Alex_ZR
Registered User
 
Alex_ZR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zrenjanin
Posts: 2,903
Likes (Received): 3993

Good video concerning Schengen area and overseas territories:

__________________
Alex_ZR está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 01:18 AM   #7943
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,744

Yes, they have

Here

https://maps.google.es/maps?q=pas+de...23.07,,0,-1.08


It is a pity but google street view shows only the passport control from France to Andorra (and even if non Schengen area, it is not often to have the passport required).

But in the oppossite way, a freight control will be done.


One French said me, a long time ago, that they were so strong that some French citizens preferred to go via Spain.

In fact... depending of the destination it could be faster via Spain (and conversely, for instance Barcelona-Ordino is faster via France because you will cross several tunnels, and obviously if destination is Pas de la Casa).


In the Spanish side, this is the point where all cars are stopped (and no alternative). The passport custom is exactly in the border and this point is inside Spanish territory

https://maps.google.es/maps?q=San+Ju...52.15,,1,-2.49


All cars will be stopped (only once there was so many congestion that a policemen left several cars without control, incluiding mine, but not usual).
Police will ask if anything to declare. If answer is no, it is required to open the car, open any random baggage and... go on if nothing special. They know that for smugglers only worths if the car is full.... but every year they take smugglers.

In both sides you can declare any good from Andorra to France or to Spain.



By the way.... the point where asphalt changes is an international border Andorra-Spain
https://maps.google.es/maps?q=San+Ju...339.14,,0,-6.3

but there is no control. Maybe the only Schengen area border with no control. The road arrives to the village of Os de Civis and, providing you do not have an off-road car and it is summer, you may return.

It is the village where they pay taxes as any other citizen to Spain but they can buy any good tax free in Andorra. This is... if you buy anything and you keep in the village, no problem. If you buy anything and you go mountains away, it is smuggling!.



Andorra has really no problem to control their country. They are only two ways to go by car out of the country: Sant Julia de Loria to Spain and Pas de la Casa to France. When they have had a problem, they cut both borders and nobody can quit the country until it is allowed (sometimes had happened).


They do not have to take care if someone tries to escape trekking because they know that both, French and Spanish police have a greeeeeat deal of controls so no need to control there.... although it is possible to arrive to the border with a correct road until the same border (La Massana)

https://maps.google.es/maps?q=San+Ju...235.72,,0,5.89
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 01:24 AM   #7944
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,744

By the way... Andorra has as Head of State to the French president and the Urgell bishop.

They chose their own president (Head of government) but both, French president and Urgell bishop are prince of Andorra.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 02:10 AM   #7945
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 17,050
Likes (Received): 9927

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Yes, they have
Of course they have a facility since customs officers need such a place for their administrative work etc, but they never stop cars or check passports/IDs (at least I have never seen it from my own eyes, even during sanitary crisis such as the mad cow disease few years ago).

And as I wrote previously, for private vehicles the "Douane Volante" do the job, which means that the cars are not stopped at the border (at least French cars), but occasionally several km away, and beyond.

PS: Actually, in order to make a comparison, and from my own experience, it's exactly the same as at many Franco-Swiss border crossing points (even if Switzerland is a Schengen member).

Last edited by parcdesprinces; July 18th, 2013 at 02:28 AM.
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 02:18 AM   #7946
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 17,050
Likes (Received): 9927

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
In fact... depending of the destination it could be faster via Spain
Well, no it's far from being faster via Spain, knowing that the overwhelming majority of French who go to Andorra, originate from Midi-Pyrénnes (Toulouse region) and they/we only go to the Pas de la Case for shopping, nothing else.
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 02:31 AM   #7947
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,744

Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
Of course they have a facility since customs officers need such a place for their administrative work etc, but they never stop cars or check passports/IDs (at least I have never seen it from my own eyes, even during sanitary crisis such as the mad cow disease few years ago).

And as I wrote previously, for private vehicles the "Douane Volante" do the job, which means that the cars are not stopped at the border (at least French cars), but occasionally several km away, and beyond.
Customs.... you would want to say instead of border.

The border is in that house with the red corner in Pas de la casa.



Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
Well, no it's far from being faster via Spain, knowing that the overwhelming majority of French who go to Andorra, originate from Midi-Pyrénnes (Toulouse region) and they/we only go to the Pas de la Case for shopping, nothing else.


If you are in the capital, it could be faster going via La Seu - Puigcerda



By the way... it is amazing about banks... there are only six banks if I'm not wrong. Some of them with offices and cash dispensers in all the country and one of them with only four offices, one in Pas de la Casa. Why there?. Just to avoid crossing the mountain pass or the tunnel to save your money.
They do not have secret bank accounts as in Switzerland but they have a specific bank secret law.

I'm pretty sure that part of their budget comes because a lot of people sent there the money and the operations that banks makes have one (or two) zero more than in other country.

People do not pay taxes. VAT doesn't exist. There are small taxes for somethings and just companies pay almost the same taxes as if they are in Spain (I made an economic comparation about 10 years ago and there weren't many differences)

So... if banks earns money, this small country earns money. That's at least 30%.




By the way.... in the Spanish SSC forum there are several (not many) threads about this country. It is so small that has no specific forum, neither a subforum... and I do not know any forumer from there registered. But if someone wants information about any project in the country, I can find and send a PM with the link
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 02:36 AM   #7948
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 17,050
Likes (Received): 9927

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Customs.... you would want to say instead of border.
Yep, indeed.
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 05:45 AM   #7949
MrAkumana
Registered User
 
MrAkumana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: I'm a Nomad...?
Posts: 200
Likes (Received): 100

Google Street view updated their photos of the spanish AP-7 - french A-9 border. It's now possible to see the way it is since early 2011 when they finished the works of removing the old customs booths: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...110.84,,0,3.08
__________________
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order" - The Doctor (Doctor Who)
MrAkumana no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 09:48 AM   #7950
TurboEngine
BANNED
 
TurboEngine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 512
Likes (Received): 358

The newly constructed and not yet functional crossing between BG and RO at Kaynardzha - Lipnitsa The border is clearly marked with branches and you can't miss the different widths of the road





__________________

Skyline_, putzi__, d29 liked this post
TurboEngine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #7951
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,449
Likes (Received): 2183

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboEngine View Post
The newly constructed and not yet functional crossing between BG and RO at Kaynardzha - Lipnitsa The border is clearly marked with branches and you can't miss the different widths of the road
Are they waiting RO and BG to join Schengen to open it without build border cabins?
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 10:39 AM   #7952
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

In all honesty, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to cancel Schengen between some member states. Some wonderful masterpieces have been stolen from a museum in the Netherlands and burned in Romania as it turned out. And there are more incidents like that, not to mention human trafficking...
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #7953
volodaaaa
Registered User
 
volodaaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 3,230
Likes (Received): 1748

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
In all honesty, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to cancel Schengen between some member states. Some wonderful masterpieces have been stolen from a museum in the Netherlands and burned in Romania as it turned out. And there are more incidents like that, not to mention human trafficking...
Do you really think that it would be impossible to stole something in case of re-establishment of border crossing?
__________________
Been/drove my car in: SK, CZ, D, A, H, PL, I, F, E, RSM, CH, FL, SLO, HR, SRB, BiH, MK, GR, BG, RO

volodaaaa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 11:40 AM   #7954
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

No, but it'll lower the chances of any of it leaving the country, hence Britain never signed up to Schengen in the first place. It will also prevent foreign criminals robbing other countries. It seems particularly Bulgarians have found a way to scam the Dutch welfare system...
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #7955
VITORIA MAN
on skycrapercity
 
VITORIA MAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: vitoria
Posts: 8,395
Likes (Received): 14404

"la ligne de demarcation " border between france ocuppied by germans and free france

see the bridge at present http://goo.gl/maps/Gp6vp
__________________

TheSkyscraper liked this post

Last edited by VITORIA MAN; July 18th, 2013 at 12:16 PM.
VITORIA MAN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #7956
Night Fury
Night Owl
 
Night Fury's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pitesti
Posts: 582
Likes (Received): 722

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
In all honesty, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to cancel Schengen between some member states. Some wonderful masterpieces have been stolen from a museum in the Netherlands and burned in Romania as it turned out. And there are more incidents like that, not to mention human trafficking...
There's nothing to cancel, Romania isn't a Schengen member state and there are permanent border checks in place at all entry points, yet they still managed to smuggle those paintings though customs anyway.

Closing down the borders is one of the worst solutions there is, because they'll find other ways to smuggle people and goods no matter how tight the border checks are, the transportation industry will be affected, everyone would be affected really, while the real source of the problem, the crime itself, wouldn't be taken care of.

A more efficient crack down on organized crime within the EU is the real way you can stop this things. More power should be given to Europol, there should be more cooperation, etc. In the end, some degree of crime will always exist no matter what, just because this and that happens from time to time, doesn't really mean crime wouldn't have happened with border controls in place.
__________________

volodaaaa, cinxxx liked this post
Night Fury no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 12:53 PM   #7957
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

French, German and Dutch police and customs patrol vehicles are still strategically placed at borders to stop vehicles that may look suspicious. In Germany particularly in Bavaria at the Austrian border to randomly check mainly eastern European and Italian vehicles, but also on the Dutch border to stop and search their own citizens returning from the Netherlands after they have done some shopping. French vehicles often get searched by the Dutch upon entering the Netherlands and by the Belgians when they leave the Netherlands, and with what comes out these stop and search checks are heavily needed.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 01:23 PM   #7958
Alex_ZR
Registered User
 
Alex_ZR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zrenjanin
Posts: 2,903
Likes (Received): 3993

Quote:
Originally Posted by VITORIA MAN View Post
"la ligne de demarcation " border between france ocuppied by germans and free france
I wouldn't call Vichy France "Free France"...
Alex_ZR está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 01:30 PM   #7959
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

No, Petain wouldn't have wanted that.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 01:37 PM   #7960
VITORIA MAN
on skycrapercity
 
VITORIA MAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: vitoria
Posts: 8,395
Likes (Received): 14404


i translated it from the french
VITORIA MAN no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium