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Old August 12th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #8281
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It's the same in Gorizia/Nova Gorica.
Or in Bolzano/Bozen, without even a border.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #8282
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German-Polish border:

Görlitz/Zgorzelec, Guben/Gubin, Frankfurt (Oder)/Słubice, Küstriner Vorland/Kostrzyn nad Odrą
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Old August 12th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #8283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post
Any example of european towns that are divided like this?
Valga (Estonia) and Valka (Latvia); Tornio (Finland) and Haparanda (Sweden); Narva (Estonia) and Ivangorod (Russia).

The last one is an outer-Schengen-border and involves lots of bureaucracy.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #8284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It's the same in Gorizia/Nova Gorica.
And in my favourite - Rogatec (SLO) and Hum na Sutli (HR). Foot traffic is surprisingly light there.

From my recent research, it seems that there are plenty of villages that are also divided there - Bregana (HR) was also clearly one city until the end of Yugoslavia.

I believe that there are a few on the BiH/HR border too - Metkovic?
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Old August 12th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #8285
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About the case of Olivenza/Olivença I have read this interesting blog. It is in Spanish and I made a sum up

http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com/2...ues/#more-5501

In 1293 it was stated that this town will be Portuguese
In 1509 the Help Bridge (Ponte d'Ajuda) was built. A 400m that connects this town with the rest of Portugal
Not later, Spain and Portugal had the same king (same three kings, grandfather, father and son) for about 50 years
Spain got in civil war after the death of the next king (the first one that wasn't Portuguese king at the same time). It was when in the middle of the war, French and British forces struggled inside Spain to set the king they wanted (French won and in the Peace treaty, Great Britain obtained Gibraltar and Menorca)
While this war (early 1700s), the bridge was demolished by Castillian troops just to avoid Portugal entering inside the war because it was one of the easiest point
It was so hard for these people to live there that was recommended to get off the town and was barely with nobody inside.
In 1801, in a small battle (no resistance), town was occupied.
Not later a new treaty was signed and accorded the transfer of this town. But... I will state that it is a word (at least in Spanish) that doesn't clarify if for sometime or forever...

For a while, any teaching in Portuguese was forbidden (and the same for other languages that now are official in Spain).

The blog considers that nowadays citizens of that village consider that they are Spanish as well as they know the fact that they are in close to a border, Portuguese influence, language, culture, etc...


Furthermore, there are some details to mark because quite cool:

- After 1801 treaty, Portugal didn't want the same situation in America so they invade current Uruguay.
- After Napoleon wars, a whole treaty was signed for all Europe. That will send Olivenza back to Portugal supossing Portugal would retire from former Uruguay. No retirement was done. Neither Olivenza by Spanish, neither Uruguay from Portuguese.
- It could be stated that Uruguay declared its independence from Brasil because, although it was Spanish territory, it was invaded.

Furthermore, should it get back to Portugal again, the problem will be where to set the borders. Does anyone know the exact point of any former border?. This is, it is well known which are Olivenza municipality boundaries but these limits were set about 50 years after when municipalities were created in Spain and could or couldn't have the historic area.



If someone has any problems with the blog to be translated, just ask for help


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Old August 12th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #8286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I believe that there are a few on the BiH/HR border too
Hrvatska Kostajnica-Bosanska Kostajnica
Slavonski Brod-Bosanski Brod
Hrvatska Dubica-Bosanska Dubica

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Old August 12th, 2013, 06:50 PM   #8287
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Quote:
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Any example of european towns that are divided like this?
Berlin before reunification
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Old August 12th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #8288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Furthermore, should it get back to Portugal again, the problem will be where to set the borders. Does anyone know the exact point of any former border?. This is, it is well known which are Olivenza municipality boundaries but these limits were set about 50 years after when municipalities were created in Spain and could or couldn't have the historic area.


I suppose if this were to happen, which it won't, the municipalities of Olivenza and Táliga (or Olivença and Talega) would be transfered. There are maps of Portugal and Spain from before 1801 and the shape of the border around the town is not very different from the modern municipality.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 07:17 PM   #8289
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It will not apply for this case but nowadays they are the same municipality
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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #8290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
Hrvatska Kostajnica-Bosanska Kostajnica
Slavonski Brod-Bosanski Brod
Hrvatska Dubica-Bosanska Dubica

I'm only familiar with Slavonski Brod/Bosanski Brod (although - I think they've changed it recently to only Brod?) - but was this really one town at some point in the past? I'm not convinced that it was - the bridge doesn't appear to be too old.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #8291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I'm only familiar with Slavonski Brod/Bosanski Brod (although - I think they've changed it recently to only Brod?) - but was this really one town at some point in the past? I'm not convinced that it was - the bridge doesn't appear to be too old.
I think that none of these were one town since towns on the Slavonian side were in Austria and Bosnian ones in Ottoman empire until Austro-Hungarian occupation of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1878.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 03:11 PM   #8292
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Or in Bolzano/Bozen, without even a border.
I think that most people in Bolzano/Bozen know (more or less) both languages since they're mandatorily taught in all schools and knowing them is relevant if you want to be employed in the public administration. Italian and German are both official languages there.
On the countrary, very few people from Gorizia know Slovenian and they mostly belong to the native Slovenian minority in Italy, that it's found in several border areas in the provinces of Udine, Gorizia and Trieste. In those areas there are some schools were Slovenian is taught. Slovenian is recognized as official language in Italian villages with a consistent Slovenian minority, not in Gorizia city.
In Nova Gorica there are only few dozens of native Italian speakers, so Italian isn't recognized as minority language, although some students study it as foreign language. The Italian minority in Slovenia lives mostly on the coast (only Capodistria\Koper, Isola d'Istria\Izola and Pirano\Piran are bilingual).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 03:13 PM   #8293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
I think that none of these were one town since towns on the Slavonian side were in Austria and Bosnian ones in Ottoman empire until Austro-Hungarian occupation of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1878.
None of this town were one town before. They were just building houses near the point where you can cross the river (Brod is not Ship literally translated, but place where river is nice to cross - i.e. it's not very deep) on both sides of it.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 05:19 PM   #8294
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Open borders...
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Old August 13th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #8295
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Illegal border crossing (LOL).
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Old August 13th, 2013, 05:53 PM   #8296
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Do you have any idea where to park the car to visit the Tripoint Liechtenstein/Austria/Switzerland?
I'm guessing at the border crossing here and then walk...

The west one not the one in the mountains

Last edited by cinxxx; August 13th, 2013 at 06:06 PM.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 05:53 PM   #8297
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Lithuania - Latvia open borders

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Old August 13th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #8298
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A divided city. I guess it has two city halls and two mayors....
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:38 AM   #8299
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There are many twin cities (divided cities) along the Mexico-USA border.


Mexicali Baja California Mexico -Calexico California USA at night


The names Mexicali and calexico are a portmanteau of California and Mexico.
CAL-ifornia + m-EXICO= CALEXICO and MEXI-co + CALI-fornia = MEXICALI


Up Mexicali Mexico and down Calexico California
Even at night you can see the border from the space







Ciudad Juarez Mexico - El paso USA

Ciudad Juarez (Paso del Norte) and El Paso were founded as "Misión de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe de Mansos del Paso del Río del Norte" in 1659 during the New Spain viceroyalty (today Mexico)


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Old August 14th, 2013, 01:21 PM   #8300
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Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post


Illegal border crossing (LOL).
I cannot believe it's so easy, I tought there were military guards 24/7 on that spot. The USA-MEX border is one of the most militarized in the world. (Mexico is one of the main drugs producer countries and there's a lot of illegal immigration to the USA).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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