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Old August 14th, 2013, 01:26 PM   #8301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I cannot believe it's so easy, I tought there were military guards 24/7 on that spot. The USA-MEX border is one of the most militarized in the world. (Mexico is one of the main drugs producer countries and there's a lot of illegal immigration to the USA).
Normally, the fence goes all the way into the sea when it is high tide...
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #8302
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It's the same in Gorizia/Nova Gorica.
Kerkrade (NL) and Herzogenrath (D). They share a street now called the Nieuwstraat - Neustrasse. That street used to be divided by a wall before the Schengen era, these days it's a joint Dutch - German road, and at the end of it there's a big community building right on the border where also both the German and Dutch police have their offices. Loads of photos at the beginning of this thread...
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:59 PM   #8303
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I've always wondered about places like that: does the language really change that abruptly when crossing the street or do people pick up enough of the other side's language that they can communicate. (I guess here, there's at least an international border, but there are places in Belgium where one side of a main street's officially French-speaking and the other German....)

EDIT: such as here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...45447&t=m&z=15
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #8304
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I'm sure they speak each others languages. The Germans speak pretty good Dutch in Emmerich for example. There's a border right through the Lille metropolitan area, where Menen is Fleming (with all the Dutch signposts) , and Tourcoing is French. In fact, there's a busy crossroad junction, and I'm sure you straddle a few metres in France to do a left turn within Menen. Don't know how they get a long. Bought a bag of fries once in Menen, ate it as I was walking, and threw the empty bag clotted with mayonaise in a French rubbish bin before crossing the road back into Menen again.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #8305
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I'm sure they speak each others languages. The Germans speak pretty good Dutch in Emmerich for example. There's a border right through the Lille metropolitan area, where Menen is Fleming (with all the Dutch signposts) , and Tourcoing is French. In fact, there's a busy crossroad junction, and I'm sure you straddle a few metres in France to do a left turn within Menen. Don't know how they get a long. Bought a bag of fries once in Menen, ate it as I was walking, and threw the empty bag clotted with mayonaise in a French rubbish bin before crossing the road back into Menen again.
There's also a German country road, where the houses on the side are in fact in Holland, with signs in Dutch telling you to beware of the dog...

Didn't want to quote myself, wanted to edit. Please have mercy...
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:11 PM   #8306
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Well, it goes beyond understanding the other sides' language. At least within countries, like in that Belgian example, I always look at the map and ask myself whether people really distribute themselves that neatly: would a French-speaking person moving into that area only look at houses on the French-speaking side and so on....
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:41 PM   #8307
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Quote:
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I've always wondered about places like that: does the language really change that abruptly when crossing the street or do people pick up enough of the other side's language that they can communicate.
I was in the borderarea of Aachen, Germany & Vaals/Gulpen, Holland in 2009.

In Aachen I boarded a dutch local bus to Vaals, NL. The busdriver did not speak german and I had trouble understanding her when buying tickets and asking for directions when the bus arrived in Vaals.

There is no border control in the area between Aachen and Vaals,but some flags indicate when you have come to NL. Don't remember whether I saw a sign of the border or not. Some of the dutch people in the nearby town Gulpen understood a bit of german, but they seemed annoyed when I spoke it and they respondend in dutch.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 02:04 AM   #8308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I always look at the map and ask myself whether people really distribute themselves that neatly: would a French-speaking person moving into that area only look at houses on the French-speaking side and so on....
I would imagine people would gravitate towards living in areas with similar people to themselves. Other factors may come into play though, if taxes are lower on one side, that will encourage people to move across. Likewise if things are cheaper on one side people will do their shopping there, also if wages are higher all the jobs may go to one side. I notice that areas like this can have quite an unequal distribution of certain things. As Belgium has cheaper tobacco, you are not going to sell much on the French side, same with petrol and alcohol. I remember speaking to a German who lived close to the Czech border who said that he almost never bought fuel or tobacco in Germany and loads of Czechs were working in town.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #8309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
In Aachen I boarded a dutch local bus to Vaals, NL. The busdriver did not speak german and I had trouble understanding her when buying tickets and asking for directions when the bus arrived in Vaals.
I don't think that the German drivers speak Dutch as well - there are also local German busses driving to Vaals.
As far as I understood people could understand each other better when they speak each other's dialect.

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Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
There is no border control in the area between Aachen and Vaals,but some flags indicate when you have come to NL. Don't remember whether I saw a sign of the border or not.
There is (although the Dutch one is hidden)



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Old August 17th, 2013, 03:00 PM   #8310
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I guess there's not much control between the Northern Irish (UK) and Republic of Ireland (or ROI) border?
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Old August 17th, 2013, 03:09 PM   #8311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I've always wondered about places like that: does the language really change that abruptly when crossing the street or do people pick up enough of the other side's language that they can communicate. (I guess here, there's at least an international border, but there are places in Belgium where one side of a main street's officially French-speaking and the other German....)

EDIT: such as here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...45447&t=m&z=15
It often happens that the languages between the borders coincide..
for example, the border between Italy and France between Ventimiglia (IT) and Mentone (FR) in the Italian/French Riviera (Liguria IT-Provence FR): in Menton the historical language is a Ligurian dialect, similar to the one spoken in Ventimiglia; in the not far away Monaco, they speak another Ligurian dialect which has now been standardised: Monégasque; in Nice long time ago they used to speak Ligurian (because it was Italian), but now it is a Occitan Provençal dialect with huge influences from Ligurian (almost to be intelligible); the only problem is, that due to policies from France, few people speak those dialects, and they are educated mainly in French.. other similarities can be found in the border between Slovenia and Italy (Slovenian spoken in a few Italian towns on the border), or in South Tyrol (Alto Adige in Italian) that borders Austria, where they speak as a first language a South Tyrolese dialect (obviously very close to the Tyrol dialect spoken in Austria), and standard German, where it is an official language (alongside Italian of course)

Last edited by AmoreUrbs; August 17th, 2013 at 03:22 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2013, 03:11 PM   #8312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmoreUrbs View Post
I guess there's not much control between the Northern Irish (UK) and Republic of Ireland (or ROI) border?
Correct. There are no border controls at all. The border is not marked with EU signs. The only ways you can tell by road signs that you have crossed the border are:

1. Changes to road signs:

a. directional signs are only in the English language in Northern Ireland, in the Republic of Ireland they are in English and Irish.

b. warning signs in NI are red-bordered white triangles, ROI uses yellow diamond signs.

c. speed limit signs - ROI uses km/h, NI uses miles per hour

2. Changes to road markings:

Road edges and hard shoulders are marked with a solid white line in NI. They are marked with either a broken yellow line or a solid yellow line (motorways) in ROI.

3. Changes to road numbers:

Roads in NI are numbered M (Motorway), A (A roads) and B (B roads).

Roads in ROI are numbered M (Motorway), N (National roads), R (Regional roads) and L (Local roads).

There is a Common Travel Area (a type of mini Schengen) between ROI, UK, Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

Sometimes there is almost no indication of the border:



Photograph from nicolette.dk

The section of road in the lower half of the photograph is in ROI. Look carefully to see the broken yellow lines marking the road edge.

This image hosted on flickr shows a road crossing the border between Co. Fermanagh (NI) and Co. Monaghan (ROI) The road surface in NI (bottom half of photo) is ligher than the road surface in ROI. If you enlarge the photo, you can see an 80km/h speed limit sign, indicating that this part of the road is in ROI.
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Last edited by marmurr1916; August 17th, 2013 at 03:35 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #8313
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Thank you for the wide explanation marmurr1916 .. it would be nice if they at least put some EU sign (or something else) to make people understand they are passing a "technically" different country, although I know that NI and ROI have a strong feeling for each other and that may be the cause they aren't do this; of course no control is needed..
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Old August 17th, 2013, 03:27 PM   #8314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmoreUrbs View Post
Thank you for the wide explanation marmurr1916 .. it would be nice if they at least put some EU sign (or something else) to make people understand they are passing a "technically" different country, although I know that NI and ROI have a strong feeling for each other and that may be the cause they aren't do this; of course no control is needed..
There are complex historical reasons why the border is not marked with EU signs.

Many people in NI and ROI do not accept that this border should exist at all.

Any signs indicating entry to the UK at the border would probably be destroyed.

Signs within NI with Londonderry on them are often changed so that only Derry remains:



Image from darachmac.blogspot.com



Image from adventuring8117.blogspot.com
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Old August 17th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #8315
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The NI/ROI border as it used to be:

1953, 20 years before Ireland and the UK joined the EEC (now EU):



1970s, with Customs control (before the Single Market):

image hosted on flickr


1980s (?), British army checkpoint on the A46 near Belleek, Co. Fermanagh:



Image by Old Monkey on Panoramio.

1990s, British army checkpoint at Annaghmartin, Co. Fermanagh, less than 1km from the border between NI/ROI:



Image by Old Monkey on Panoramio.
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Old August 18th, 2013, 12:49 AM   #8316
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The Northern Irish Government (I forget what the actual name is - Executive?) have been putting up Welcome to Northern Ireland signs recently, although I'm not sure if they actually are still in place.

For what it's worth, there are very occasional controls on the border. From what I've found out, they have much more focus on the ports - but as the UK and Ireland do not have a common visa policy, it's not absolutely abnormal for occasional checks to take place on the land border.

At the air/sea border, you'll always pass some sort of immigration control - although the intensity (or lack of) does vary.

Customs controls are a different story - I don't think I've ever heard of an instance where Customs in either Ireland or the UK have stopped an ordinary passenger car since 1993.
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Old August 18th, 2013, 05:36 AM   #8317
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Point Roberts (USA) - Tsawwassen (Canada)

Observed from Canadian side towards USA










Last edited by loxian; August 19th, 2013 at 09:19 PM.
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Old August 18th, 2013, 11:31 AM   #8318
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Point Roberts (USA) - Tsawwassen (Canada)

Observed from Canadian side towards USA










How come they don't have put up some kind of fence to obstruct illegal entry?
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Old August 18th, 2013, 11:45 AM   #8319
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How the hell Tsawwassen is pronounced?
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Old August 18th, 2013, 12:16 PM   #8320
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How come they don't have put up some kind of fence to obstruct illegal entry?
The Canadian/US Border is really, really, REALLY long. Over 5,000 miles/8,800 kilometers.
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