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Old October 12th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #8741
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
The whole world is the English speaking world. Especially with the newer generation the English language creates a bridge between people who's native languages are different from each other.
I don't insist on perfect world speaking in English. But country names is something different. I bet everyone,who is asked to, can tell you the name of your country in English. I don't think English is the most wide-spread language in the world, but I think we can simply say English country names = international country names. Even ISO code for Soviet Union was derived from english name - SU (Soviet Union) despite of Cold war
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Old October 12th, 2013, 08:59 PM   #8742
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The country code for Spain is .ES Not really derived from the English name. Same goes for .HR (Croatia)
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Old October 12th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #8743
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Old October 12th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #8744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post

I don't insist on perfect world speaking in English. But country names is something different. I bet everyone,who is asked to, can tell you the name of your country in English. I don't think English is the most wide-spread language in the world, but I think we can simply say English country names = international country names. Even ISO code for Soviet Union was derived from english name - SU (Soviet Union) despite of Cold war
There are some non-native English speakers on here who consider calling place names by its English name a sin, and will continue to interact in English but calling those localities Milano, Napoli, Lisboa and München instead of Milan, Napels, Lisbon and Munich. They'll dictate native English speakers on how to not speak English in a English speaking forum. It's up to them, I'm sure they know better than the UN charters and the Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries. But for the earth's international population it's a good way to point out what you mean if mentioned in English.
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Old October 12th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #8745
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Hang on a minute. It all started with this sign:

Quote:
And had been continued after a question why it's written in Slovenian and not English. The answer was pretty clear and obvious: because the sign is located in Slovenia. Simple, isn't it?
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Old October 12th, 2013, 11:00 PM   #8746
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Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Hang on a minute. It all started with this sign:

And had been continued after a question why it's written in Slovenian and not English. The answer was pretty clear and obvious: because the sign is located in Slovenia. Simple, isn't it?
Yep. But the discussion dragged on from there onwards.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 12:11 AM   #8747
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Every common "drivers" SHOULD understand this sign as Österreich, Ausztria, Austria or something else. You need to have some kind of geografical understanding of the situation too. People are not complitly stupid....or at least I hope it is not the case.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 12:57 AM   #8748
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Guys, I hope you did not get me wrong. I just wanted to discuss, that Slovene "Avstria" is little bit irregular case to me. I have only seen country names in native language on such signs. Moreover, there is a sign with "Österreich - 1 km" label near my neighbourhood
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Old October 13th, 2013, 01:06 AM   #8749
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
There are some non-native English speakers on here who consider calling place names by its English name a sin, and will continue to interact in English but calling those localities Milano, Napoli, Lisboa and München instead of Milan, Napels, Lisbon and Munich. They'll dictate native English speakers on how to not speak English in a English speaking forum. It's up to them, I'm sure they know better than the UN charters and the Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries. But for the earth's international population it's a good way to point out what you mean if mentioned in English.
But obviously they say Parigi, Londra, Monaco di Baviera, Mosca,... while speaking Italian.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 03:00 AM   #8750
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There is not common criteria about using exonyms/endonyms around Europe. English is not a lingua franca de facto around Spanish roads either. It is permanently inconsistent even within the same country.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 04:48 AM   #8751
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Guys, I hope you did not get me wrong. I just wanted to discuss, that Slovene "Avstria" is little bit irregular case to me. I have only seen country names in native language on such signs. Moreover, there is a sign with "Österreich - 1 km" label near my neighbourhood
Hence my question: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=8726
But I wouldn't expect to see "Österreich" in Slovakia; I'd expect to see it in Slovak (this is of course based on what I've seen of this sort of signage on forums like this one, rather than personal driving experience....) And I think a sign in Slovak in Slovakia is totally appropriate.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 08:46 AM   #8752
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But obviously they say Parigi, Londra, Monaco di Baviera, Mosca,... while speaking Italian.
Sure. These are the official Italian words, and no outsider has the right to change that, like some do on here with English.

Obviously, it's a whole different can of worms when it comes to signposting. I think I do prefer the Dutch way and signpost cities abroad in their original language, as this is the destination to follow when you have crossed the border anyway.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 10:02 AM   #8753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Guys, I hope you did not get me wrong. I just wanted to discuss, that Slovene "Avstria" is little bit irregular case to me. I have only seen country names in native language on such signs. Moreover, there is a sign with "Österreich - 1 km" label near my neighbourhood
Here in West-Germany, BeNeLux area it is usually so, that the "XXXX 1km" sign is in the language of the country that you're leaving, and the "XXXX" sign is the language of the country wich you're entering. This "Avstrija 1km" fits this rule perfectly :-)
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Old October 13th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #8754
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A century ago that was French, a century from now it might be Spanish. And meantime, we native speakers get people asking us to simplify our vocabulary so that non-natives can understand us (I've seen that in the fricking New York Times) or Briticizing our usage so that people who've learned "good" English can uderstand us (I've seen that on this forum.)

EDIT:
The last couple of days, there's been a conference in Brussels, sponsored by Le Soir, De Standaard and Le Nouvel observateur, on "making Europe work." I've seen Le Soir's coverage. They solicited ideas from people; someone from Spain wrote in saying English should be made the first language in schools and media throughout Europe; local languages should be reduced to spoken languages. Does no one care about their own culture? Spaniards no longer reading Cervantes?
I highly doubt that "someone from Spain" can speak on behalf whole Europe.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #8755
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I highly doubt that "someone from Spain" can speak on behalf whole Europe.
Why not? A Spanish citizen is entitled to have a say in European affairs as much as an Englishman, Dutchman, Frenchman, a German or an Austrian...
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Old October 13th, 2013, 11:09 AM   #8756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Hence my question: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=8726
But I wouldn't expect to see "Österreich" in Slovakia; I'd expect to see it in Slovak (this is of course based on what I've seen of this sort of signage on forums like this one, rather than personal driving experience....) And I think a sign in Slovak in Slovakia is totally appropriate.
There is no a EU wide rule about that sign. Some countries don't have it eihter in their law, like Poland. Austria for example doesnt have sign saying that you are entering another country in few hundreds meters. They have just the sign when you enter the country.
In Slovak Austria is called Rakusko, so probably very few foreigners would understand what country it is, that's why they put the sign with German name. On the other hand when you see that sign you already know that you are going to enter Austria. What I always wondered, sorry for OT, it is why the Slovaks and Czechs calls Austria Rakusko/Rakousko. I was unable to find it.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #8757
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The Czech and Slovak languages have a peculiar name for Austria. Czech Rakousko and Slovak Rakúsko neither derived from German Österreich nor from Latin Austria. The Czech name of Rakousko, previously also Rakúsy and later Rakousy, which is still used for the states of Upper and Lower Austria (Horní a Dolní Rakousy), originates in the name of the Austrian castle and town of Raabs an der Thaya near the Czech-Austrian border, formerly also known as Ratgoz or Ratgos.[13] It is worth noting that in his Geography the ancient writer Ptolemy mentions two tribes (of unknown ethnic affiliation) named Racatae and Racatriae which inhabit the areas around the Danube river "up to his bend", roughly corresponding to the region north of Vienna and southwestern Slovakia
So, when Czechs decided to visit Austria they said "we go to Rakús/ ideme* na Rakús" as they called Ratgos. From that, it's pretty straight way to find out why they call Austria so differently.

* correct word?
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Old October 13th, 2013, 11:25 AM   #8758
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Thanks, finally I know it! What is funny that any slovka or czech I asked they weren't able to answer me.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 11:27 AM   #8759
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..Yes, In hungarian you can find those totally different names for countries too.
Oroszország - Russia
Olaszország - Italy
Lengyelország - Poland

"ország" can be translated as "land"
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Old October 13th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #8760
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..Yes, In hungarian you can find those totally different names for countries too.
Oroszország - Russia
Olaszország - Italy
Lengyelország - Poland

"ország" can be translated as "land"
Yes you are right, but in this case we are talking about the sign indicating the neighbouring country you are approaching. I think in Hungary,you dont have that sign, the 12 stars with the country you are going to enter. You use that sign only when you are entring Hungary. And anyway how do you call the neighbouring countries?
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