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Old January 16th, 2014, 10:53 PM   #9301
italystf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
Your link leads to Switzerland-France border.
Sorry, I copy-pasted the wong link
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Szomb...,3.75,,0,10.14
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 16th, 2014, 11:00 PM   #9302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I think distrust is too strong a word; Americans and Canadians generally get along, officials included. But if you were a politician on either side of the border, you'd voted to open the border and then something happened on your side of the border committed by someone from the "dangerous" parts of the world who'd come through the other country....

Basic caution, basic fear of the future (fear of the unknown).... There's always a portion of the electorate (including, for example, my mother) who are perfectly willing to cede power to the government on the assumption that it'll protect us. Hence the NSA. (Don't want to open that up here but the fact that people are willing to let the NSA do what it's been doing seems to me another aspect of the same phenomenon.)
I understand you, but for me as a foreigner, it is hard to get to US as much as to Canada. But I totally agree with the statements above. Schengen has many issues that are not exactly solved. For instance, recognition of Kosovo.
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Old January 16th, 2014, 11:17 PM   #9303
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French-Swiss border near Geneva:
https://maps.google.it/maps?ll=46.16...33.11,,0,25.31
The road is in France, houses on one side are in Switzerland and are accessed to the other side. This gate looks like a private border crossing.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 16th, 2014, 11:55 PM   #9304
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The army cannot cross the schengen inner borders on duty but the police can in case of prosecution.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 12:06 AM   #9305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
The army cannot cross the schengen inner borders on duty but the police can in case of prosecution.
But is that really enforced?
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Old January 17th, 2014, 12:59 AM   #9306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I think distrust is too strong a word; Americans and Canadians generally get along, officials included. But if you were a politician on either side of the border, you'd voted to open the border and then something happened on your side of the border committed by someone from the "dangerous" parts of the world who'd come through the other country....

Basic caution, basic fear of the future (fear of the unknown).... There's always a portion of the electorate (including, for example, my mother) who are perfectly willing to cede power to the government on the assumption that it'll protect us. Hence the NSA. (Don't want to open that up here but the fact that people are willing to let the NSA do what it's been doing seems to me another aspect of the same phenomenon.)
Millenium Bomber certainly caused some issues, but such things are so exceedingly rare.

Typically politicians on either side of border are usually complaing of border regulations, they are almost all on side of improved conditions. But opposition exists mostly further one is away from border as you note.

But surely of any countries, US and Canada can make open borders work properly. It is patently crazy that we can drive 125 mph across, for example, D - PL border with no issues whatsoever, despite a particular history, while USA - CAN border have to stop and wait 20 minutes and show passport, answer questions, open trunk when there has been 200 years of uninterrupted peace with geopolitical and economic alliance. In terms of cost to the people of both countries, both direct taxation to run the bureaucracies, and indirect economic strangulation, it costs some huge sum of money annually. Any security issue can be solved in more efficient and effective ways in other manners.

Pretty much any bad guy in the US is as well in Canada so there really isn't much security issue. Just look at the recent / current Toronto - New York train bombing plot. US and Canadian law enforcement found these guys and worked together to make sure it did not happen, meanwhile the border guards let them through on multiple times despite beards bigger than Osama's
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Old January 17th, 2014, 04:28 AM   #9307
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All true....
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DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
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Old January 17th, 2014, 04:36 AM   #9308
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While the grilling you get is rather silly, Canada-US still don't have complete free trade, there are limits on certain things and you can't cross the border with other items (and for good reason). I can understand a check for that, but the grilling you get with 1000 cameras and the need for a passport is rather silly. Like the TSA, I can see it to ensure that people aren't carrying illegal goods across the border (especially guns as the US is much more lax on that than Canada, and it is a huge industry to ship guns north of the border), but doing it to stop terrorists is pointless.

the real issue for border crossings for me is trains, there are only 3 cross border train services (Toronto-NYC, Montreal-NYC and Vancouver-Seattle), but they can be rather silly. at one point in the 1990's the VIA train would end at the border, passengers would get on a bus, drive over the border and get checked as a normal bus, and get into an AMTRAK train. now the train "simply" stops at the border for 2 hours as border security agents check everybody and everything on board. They need to upgrade stations so that you can do border clearances before entering the train, so that the train can just fly across the border. The problem is that they treat them like buses, when they need to be treated like planes.

Last edited by Innsertnamehere; January 17th, 2014 at 04:44 AM.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 04:47 AM   #9309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
All true....
Damnit I came here for an argument, consensus making is on the third floor!

I hate the various restrictions on things across the border, especially how Canada hates you bringing any booze into our parched, provincial in the truest sense of the word saharas... Yes I know I can buy liquor here, selection sucks, but I am offended to pay the stupid monopoly markups and subsidize the cash register clerks making the same salary as engineers
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Old January 17th, 2014, 04:52 AM   #9310
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I don't think you realize how the LCBO works.. but Ok. think of it this way: what you pay for in extra booze money saves you when it comes tax time.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 05:13 AM   #9311
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Heck, theoretically, it's illegal to transport liquor across state lines within the U.S. Even though it's completely unenforced. Pennsylvania has its own version of the LCBO - the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board, whose outlets are unaffectionately known as "state stores" - ...and lots of privately-owned liquor outlets are in neighboring states right over the line. (Personally, I do my alcohol shopping* here: https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.81853...11362&t=m&z=17 As you'll see if you zoom out, you literally can't get any closer to Philadelphia without crossing into Pennsylvania. Except in New Jersey, but then there'd be a bridge toll on the way back. And sales tax. Delaware doesn't have sales tax.)

*For anything stronger than beer, that is. Beer's not part of the LCB monopoly.
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AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
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Old January 17th, 2014, 05:40 AM   #9312
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In Canada also illegal to transport liquor over provincial boundaries, very problematic in Ottawa region (straddles QC and ON, QC beer is half price compared to absurd private-monopoly "Beer Store" deal)

But back to border crossings, sort of, on I-93 between New Hampshire and Massachusetts, there are huge "NH State Liquor Stores" on not just one, but both sides of the freeway, and you see many Mass plates I know it is one country, but "Taxachusetts" and "Live free or Die" are practically different countries

It reminds me of the border between Germany and Poland, at Frankfurt am Oder / Slubice. You cross the bridge (no checkpoints!) with a steady line of D plates. On the Polish side, the wonderful PL speed limit rosetta stone, and tons of businesses with big signs "TANKSTELLE HIER" and "ZIGARETTEN!" as well as the inevitable Biedronka. PL gasoline is notably cheaper than German and, I guess cigarettes also. Even gas station guy addressed me in German and asked if I wanted to pay in Euro... euro jest nie dobry, je platny tylko w zloty!

here for example, you can't get any closer to Germany than this, the water is 10 feet away
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=slubic...69.07,,0,-0.23

Last edited by Kanadzie; January 17th, 2014 at 05:49 AM.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 05:53 AM   #9313
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I can tell you from experience that nobody follows the rules for inter provincial booze. lots of people in ottawa just drive to quebec to buy booze, especially 18 year olds.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 10:45 AM   #9314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
But is that really enforced?
Of course. Crossing borders arms in hands is a declaration of war.

Armed forces can, of course cross borders and act officially if invited.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 11:15 AM   #9315
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Border on a bridge between Italy (right) and France (left) in Claviere:

http://goo.gl/maps/FqA1a
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Old January 17th, 2014, 01:15 PM   #9316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Heck, theoretically, it's illegal to transport liquor across state lines within the U.S. Even though it's completely unenforced. Pennsylvania has its own version of the LCBO - the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board, whose outlets are unaffectionately known as "state stores" - ...and lots of privately-owned liquor outlets are in neighboring states right over the line. (Personally, I do my alcohol shopping* here: https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.81853...11362&t=m&z=17 As you'll see if you zoom out, you literally can't get any closer to Philadelphia without crossing into Pennsylvania. Except in New Jersey, but then there'd be a bridge toll on the way back. And sales tax. Delaware doesn't have sales tax.)

*For anything stronger than beer, that is. Beer's not part of the LCB monopoly.
So you can't buy a beer in a supermarket in Pennsylvania?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 03:41 PM   #9317
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You can.

By "not part of the monopoly," I meant that other retailers are allowed to sell it.
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Old January 17th, 2014, 04:53 PM   #9318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
The army cannot cross the schengen inner borders on duty but the police can in case of prosecution.

Yes, that's why near the lake I pointed, army will never go on operations. There are several barracks in the surroudings to train on mountains but to approach that nice lake they should climb several mountains or cross over France for less than 1km. Therefore... they have a lot of mountains to trek or climb
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Old January 17th, 2014, 04:54 PM   #9319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
French-Swiss border near Geneva:
https://maps.google.it/maps?ll=46.16...33.11,,0,25.31
The road is in France, houses on one side are in Switzerland and are accessed to the other side. This gate looks like a private border crossing.
Nice link. Is is considered to remove booths?
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Old January 17th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #9320
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Of course. Crossing borders arms in hands is a declaration of war.
Some years ago there was an incident of Swiss soldiers crossing inadvertently into Liechtenstein during some routine exercise. After having already marched some 1.5 kms into FL territory, they eventually realized their mistake and marched out again. Later, an official excuse was presented by the Swiss Army to the Gov't of Liechtenstein. No war broke out
Liechtenstein does not maintain an army since the 1860's.
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