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Old January 22nd, 2014, 01:14 AM   #9441
Kanadzie
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Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Apparently bordering states have mutual agreements in the US that allow for this, plus there seems to be some uniform act adopted by unknown number of states that says when police crosses state line in pursuit they can still make an arrest.

http://law.onecle.com/michigan/780-c...l-780-101.html
Even US / Canada border has similar arrangement. But... probably no way the person will cross border with police in pursuit, unless he is running in the forest

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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
during communism, it wasn't a joke, one who did the same job in the 70s spent a week in jail in Koper until the Italian embassy in Belgrade asked for being released (and he was banned to entry in Yugoslavia until the country dissolved).
I laughed at this comment. It is an amusing concept, banned from entering the country permanently. But, you can go back, as the country you are banned from no longer exists
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 01:32 AM   #9442
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I laughed at this comment. It is an amusing concept, banned from entering the country permanently. But, you can go back, as the country you are banned from no longer exists
It's not only the country that dissolved but also the regime that changed, since after 1991 there was no more communism. It would be the same if it was, for example, Hungary, even if this country continued to exist after the switch to the democracy.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 01:35 AM   #9443
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Don't they already exist? Here is a video about joint border patrols of Bosnian border guards with those of Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro.
Not as unified units, no. There are joint patrols, but what I'm talking about is specific units set up that can operate in either territory freely. The idea is that the nationality of the officer then would be meaningless - both (for instance) Polish and German officers would be free to operate either side of the border regardless of the origin of the officer.

It perhaps wouldn't work where historical conflicts are concerned, but there's no reason why the Dutch and Belgians (for instance) couldn't have binational police forces in border areas. I seem to remember that one absurdity of Baarle is that they have two police forces operating there!
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 01:41 AM   #9444
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During Yugoslavia times and also with Slovenia until 2007 some small border crossings were open only to people living less than 10km from them (both in Italy or in Slovenia\Yugoslavia).
Interestingly Slovenia demolished all small border crossings with Croatia when it joined Schengen. http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Svet/10592/...e-ka-Hrvatskoj
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 03:31 PM   #9445
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It's not only the country that dissolved but also the regime that changed, since after 1991 there was no more communism. It would be the same if it was, for example, Hungary, even if this country continued to exist after the switch to the democracy.
Bad analogy....
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CENTRAL HUNGARY RULEZ<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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Old January 22nd, 2014, 03:56 PM   #9446
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Actually it's not, it's a perfect analogy, couldn't be better. Why? Well unlike maybe some other countries Hungary made it pretty clear in it's Constitution

We do not recognise the communist constitution of 1949, since it was the basis for tyrannical rule; therefore we proclaim it to be invalid.
We date the restoration of our country’s self-determination, lost on the nineteenth day of March 1944, from the second day of May 1990, when the first freely elected organ of popular representation was formed. We shall consider this date to be the beginning of our country’s new democracy and constitutional order.
http://www.kormany.hu/download/e/2a/...%20HUNGARY.pdf
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 04:46 PM   #9447
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Bad analogy....
Why? The only other possible analogies (country that kept the same borders and name after communism) were Poland, Albania, Romania and Bulgaria, i picked one randomly.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 06:48 PM   #9448
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Interestingly Slovenia demolished all small border crossings with Croatia when it joined Schengen. http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Svet/10592/...e-ka-Hrvatskoj
No, not all. There are still plenty of crossings easily accessible. They did demolish many of the smallest ones (that were often nothing more than a bit of wood across a small stream) - but many others remain. For instance, this one near Bregana/Slovenska Vas - http://goo.gl/maps/uyxhq

I think there's also one close to Hum na Sutli/Rogatec that remains wide open, not to mention that the Sutla (is that the name?) river is easily crossed by anyone capable of jumping more than a metre.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 07:26 PM   #9449
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I meant official crossings. Of course you can jump over but that's illegal. Demolishing or closing 115 bridges is a significant number I think. Of course 60 crossings remain but many had been shut down.

http://goo.gl/maps/NNkE1
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 07:39 PM   #9450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
I meant official crossings. Of course you can jump over but that's illegal. Demolishing or closing 115 bridges is a significant number I think. Of course 60 crossings remain but many had been shut down.

http://goo.gl/maps/NNkE1
As far as I understand it, most of those closed before Schengen weren't actually open in the first place - it was only that locals had passes allowing them to pass the border at any point. Most of the ones demolished were 'unofficial' bridges built by locals - you'll notice that along the border, there are still plenty of border crossings easily accessible.

http://goo.gl/maps/id4Am

Why Slovenia and Croatia don't open these crossings up as tourist crossings is entirely beyond me.

I had an interesting discussion with Croatian/Slovenian border guards about this - their opinion (officially) was that crossing at those points isn't allowed, but in reality, it is tolerated for locals as long as they have a local border pass or ID card. With Croatia joining the EU, there's really no reason why these crossings can't be opened up for EU citizens with random checks as appropriate.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 08:29 PM   #9451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I had an interesting discussion with Croatian/Slovenian border guards about this - their opinion (officially) was that crossing at those points isn't allowed, but in reality, it is tolerated for locals as long as they have a local border pass or ID card. With Croatia joining the EU, there's really no reason why these crossings can't be opened up for EU citizens with random checks as appropriate.
Maybe you should have a discussion with your fairly high level Schengen friend. He might be able to explain to you how Schengen border checks are carried out, and why your suggestions are superfluous.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 09:01 PM   #9452
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Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Even though the text is barely legible, I can read something like "prijelaz državne granice dozvoljen imatelju pogranične propusnice ...", so locals may cross it.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 09:55 PM   #9453
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I believe it says that the nearest crossing where they can be used is 2km away

Here you can see it better http://goo.gl/maps/LzeIE
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Last edited by Singidunum; January 22nd, 2014 at 10:06 PM.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 10:12 PM   #9454
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Stanstead, Quebec and Derby Line, Vermont (Canada / USA border on the east) could be another interesting international border.

..........
Residents of Stanstead, Quebec and Derby Line, Vermont face fines of up to $5,000 - just for walking across the …For residents of two towns on the border between Canada and the U.S., crossing the street can be a complicated and expensive affair.

Between the towns of Stanstead, QC, and Derby Line, Vt., lies a border marked by a row of flower pots.

It's one of several haphazardly erected divides between the two towns, which share a library that has a front door on American soil and a back door in Canada. Some residents even have to report to a border post every time they pull out of their driveways because they've entered Canadian soil, according to a 2007 New York Times story.

More information here:

Stanstead, Quebec

Canada-U.S. border marked by flower

The Canada-U.S. Border
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 10:20 PM   #9455
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Already discussed on previous pages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
I believe it says that the nearest crossing where they can be used is 2km away

Here you can see it better http://goo.gl/maps/LzeIE
That's just information for non-locals, at least in your first link. Btw, this bridge looks like the border between Croatia and North Korea.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 10:54 PM   #9456
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But you can see the sign on both that means it's prohibited to walk there



You can see the same sign in Saatse Boot http://goo.gl/maps/QeYMj

Interesting story about it from a few months ago and mushroom pickers

http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/...russian-empire
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 11:32 PM   #9457
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But you can see the sign on both that means it's prohibited to walk there
With text added, which always overruns the meaning of the upper sign (I'm talking about the first link), otherwise there would be no point in writing anything.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 12:25 AM   #9458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
But you can see the sign on both that means it's prohibited to walk there



You can see the same sign in Saatse Boot http://goo.gl/maps/QeYMj

Interesting story about it from a few months ago and mushroom pickers

http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/...russian-empire
The article says that it's an enclave, but it isn't, just an Estonian road crossing a bit of Russia.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 12:37 AM   #9459
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There is a bit of County Monaghan in the Republic of Ireland that is only accessible by road from Fermanagh in the North.

https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=54.143...98269&t=m&z=13
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 12:38 AM   #9460
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Maybe you should have a discussion with your fairly high level Schengen friend. He might be able to explain to you how Schengen border checks are carried out, and why your suggestions are superfluous.
No need to discuss anything - a casual look at the history of the CZ-DE border shows that many pedestrian border crossings in the 2004-2007 era were left unguarded some of the time. Schengen in theory requires a so called minimum-check to be carried out, but the reality on the ground is that EU members don't particularly care about guarding the frontiers with other EU countries of a similar economic status. Even before Switzerland joined Schengen, France had little interest in systematically controlling the border.

A simple amendment to the Schengen Borders Code allowing people owning local border passes to walk across the border would suffice in terms of legality. Or if this is too much trouble - simply declare to the EU where these border crossings are and don't bother to control them.

Anyone who knows the reality on the ground knows that Schengen rules are ignored when it comes to countries considered safe. It's not like the Croatia/Slovenia border was guarded heavily pre-July 2013.

Anyway, a look above shows a link to a border crossing with a sign allowing passage for those in possession of a valid local border pass. So - the reality on the ground is that these crossings already exist, just that there's not enough of them.

Schengen may be ultra-strict when it comes to the border with countries such as Ukraine and Russia, but it has never been particularly strict in other cases.

Incidentally, from my last trip to Croatia, it's clear that the Croatian police can grant permission for people to cross the border at any point. I had this discussion with the police there about Zeljava - if I had a valid reason, then they would be happy for me to cross the border there. I asked about other locations, and the same rule applied - if someone can get permission from border police on both sides, then a pass may be issued to cross the border freely for a certain amount of time.

Schengen rules are - like most EU rules - flexible.

Last edited by Eulanthe; January 23rd, 2014 at 12:52 AM.
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