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Old January 30th, 2014, 07:13 PM   #9501
Singidunum
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Again, crossing the border is simple and doesn't take much time. They are not complaining about that. They are complaining about running out of passport pages due to stamps. There are a few ways to solve this - no stamping, ID card travel deal and border crossing passes.

There is this but I am not sure how it works nor whom is it issued to



Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Why is it mandatory to stamp passports? (either when they are going to be under Croatian territory just for a while...)
The EU regulation says passports of third country nationals must be stamped in every case, even when border checks are in a speed mode. This simply can't be skipped legally. Now it is often skipped in practice, but apparently they are not ready for that in this case because it would mean a systematic violation.

Croatia also didn't extend (or something like that) the ID card travel with Bosnia which was a major scandal.

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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
EU laws. Citizens of all countries, but EU, Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein need passport to enter EU.
There were particular exceptions too, for example Croats before joining EU were able to visit Italy, Slovenia and Hungary with ID only (but not other EU countries). Maybe they will do something similar to Serbs, when Serbia will be closer to the EU.
Serbia is much closer to the EU than when Croatia was when those deals were struck with Italy and Slovenia. Actually the next step for Serbia with the EU is accession following the negotiations that were started, everything else is done. But Croatia is slow on this even where it matters for them like with Bosnia with large number of Croats living there. With Serbia the proposed deal on ID card travel is moving at snail speed.

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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
A bridge between Backa Palanka and Nestin would be the easiest solution.
Absolutely not. A Danube bridge would cost a lot and no one will want to invest in a new bridge 2 miles south of the existing bridge because of some village. It would be cheaper to fly those kids in a helicopter every day until Serbia joins Schengen than to build a new bridge there.

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Originally Posted by Jack_Frost View Post
isnt such a regulation already implemented? i have crossed the serbian border several times with my hungarian ID.
It doesn't work in the opposite direction. Serbian ID card is valid only in Montenegro, Bosnia and Macedonia. Deal with Croatia was announced years ago but it's still not signed, they can't even make that deal work with Bosnia.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 07:24 PM   #9502
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OK so the border pass of Croatia is issued only to people who live in Bosnia 5km to the border. So Nestin residents can't use it.

Ukraine has a deal on local border traffic with Poland, Slovakia and Hungary. These documents are issued to Ukrainian nationals living in border areas. I am not sure if they replace visas, or passports, or what are they good for exactly

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Old January 30th, 2014, 07:57 PM   #9503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Frost View Post
isnt such a regulation already implemented? i have crossed the serbian border several times with my hungarian ID.
EU citizens can enter all Balkan countries with ID only, citizens of those countries need passport to enter EU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Serbia is much closer to the EU than when Croatia was when those deals were struck with Italy and Slovenia. Actually the next step for Serbia with the EU is accession following the negotiations that were started, everything else is done. But Croatia is slow on this even where it matters for them like with Bosnia with large number of Croats living there. With Serbia the proposed deal on ID card travel is moving at snail speed.
I know that Serbia wants to join EU, but what will they do with the Kosovo issue? Serbia doesn't recognize it while most of EU countries do. Will Kosovo have the same status of Northern Cyprus (territory legally part of an EU country but not controlled by it)? However Northern Cyprus is different, since it's recognized only by Turkey and all EU countries regards it as a part of the Republic of Cyprus, while in the case of Serbia, some EU country recognizes Kosovo as part of Serbia while most don't.
(I just asked an international law curiosity, I don't want to offend anyone, I'm not Serbian, Kosovan or Albanian, so I don't care if Kosovo is independent or not or if Serbia joins EU or not).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 08:04 PM   #9504
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It's part of the negotiations, they will have to find some creative solution. But it's not really relevant when it comes to border crossings, pretty much everyone in Kosovo has Serbian passports. But large parts of Croatia were in the same limbo as Kosovo today when citizens of Croatia could travel without any hindrance to Italy or Slovenia, so I don't see Kosovo affecting the problems of Nestin residents in any way
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Old January 30th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #9505
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That would be interesting since Kosovo demands visa for nationals of countries which do not recognize Kosovo. And Spain does not recognize Kosovo, so that would mean that a EU-member should ask visas for people of an other EU-member, if Serbia would join EU with Kosovo as the "Cyprus-solution".
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Old January 30th, 2014, 08:19 PM   #9506
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I wonder how they could keep Croats travelling without passport within Italy, Slovenia and Hungary, since they could travel unchecked from those 3 countries to the rest of the Schengen area.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 08:21 PM   #9507
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Yes, they could travel unchecked to the rest of Schengen, but if they were caught they faced some penalties. But if nobody checked for their documents... they were lucky
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Old January 30th, 2014, 08:27 PM   #9508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
That would be interesting since Kosovo demands visa for nationals of countries which do not recognize Kosovo. And Spain does not recognize Kosovo, so that would mean that a EU-member should ask visas for people of an other EU-member, if Serbia would join EU with Kosovo as the "Cyprus-solution".
They most certainly don't demand visas from any EU member states They apply these "laws" on Bosnians and Russians but not on Spanish, Greek etc. citizens. For Kosovo it would be much better to join with Serbia as Cyprus solution but I wouldn't count on it, they wanted to join Enver Hoxha's Albania back in the day, pragmatism isn't strong there. So staying out of all international organizations and be a failed abortion of a state is more likely choice for Kosovo politicians than making deals with Serbia. Serbian politicians on the other hand signed anything about Kosovo that was put under their noses in the last year or so to make the EU accession imminent. Again as with Neum case, the most obvious and easy solution is the one that is not discussed. Simply divide the thing between Albania and Serbia. But for as long as the EU has supreme power over Kosovo through their mission that can arrest and put anyone on trial, sack politicians, amend laws etc. I don't see anything changing.

Anyway, back to border crossings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I wonder how they could keep Croats travelling without passport within Italy, Slovenia and Hungary, since they could travel unchecked from those 3 countries to the rest of the Schengen area.
They couldn't but afaik penalties were serious.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 08:30 PM   #9509
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One question: how is done today the check at the Serbia - Kosovo border? Since Kosovo view themselves as a separate state I guess they act like any other country at the border check on their side. But what about Serbia, which still sees Kosovo as part of it? Do they have border checks there?
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Old January 30th, 2014, 08:33 PM   #9510
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Croatian president proposed ID card travel between Croatia and Serbia back in 2010 http://mondo.rs/a178251/Info/Ex-Yu/U...om-kartom.html but the right wing Government at the time in Croatia didn't want the deal. Then the Government changed but the idea was forgotten about?
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Old January 30th, 2014, 08:48 PM   #9511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
One question: how is done today the check at the Serbia - Kosovo border? Since Kosovo view themselves as a separate state I guess they act like any other country at the border check on their side. But what about Serbia, which still sees Kosovo as part of it? Do they have border checks there?
Yes, they are called administrative crossings instead of border crossings.

As of 2013 they are integrated, they are joint checkpoints of three polices - EU, Serbia and Kosovo (don't ask me how that is possible, it just is), it's mostly about customs, there are no passport controls and stamps, just ID control, no state symbols. http://balkans.aljazeera.net/vijesti...anim-prelazima Before that those crossings had two checkpoints that of the EU mission and of Serbian police (the inclusion of Kosovo police is one of those things Serbia happily signed to move the EU accession forward).

Foreign passports bearing Kosovo stamps from crossings to Macedonia and Albania have those stamps annulled, although I think this doesn't happen at the checkpoint but when leaving Serbia to Croatia, Hungary, or wherever. Also Kosovo passports can't be used directly to enter Serbia, there is some procedure but I have absolutely no idea what it is, I just heard of it a month ago, when Turkish diaspora caused chaos on border crossings with Hungary and Croatia and they mentioned how additional issues are caused by a large number of people with Kosovo documents who first need to do some procedure, but they didn't explain. Although most people from Kosovo, all those who didn't move in from Albania in the past 15 years, have Serbian passports.

How is the procedure to cross from Moldova to Transnistria? And can you cross from Transnistria to Ukraine?
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Old January 30th, 2014, 08:53 PM   #9512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
One question: how is done today the check at the Serbia - Kosovo border? Since Kosovo view themselves as a separate state I guess they act like any other country at the border check on their side. But what about Serbia, which still sees Kosovo as part of it? Do they have border checks there?
Since December 2012 there are "integrated" border checks according to agreement signed during Serbia-Kosovo negotiations. On the Kosovan side there are also Eulex mission officers. There are no "Republic of Kosovo" symbols at those crossings, which are called "administrative" in Serbia.

Crossing Jarinje





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Old January 30th, 2014, 09:00 PM   #9513
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Thank you both of you for your answers.

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Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
How is the procedure to cross from Moldova to Transnistria? And can you cross from Transnistria to Ukraine?
To be honest: I don't really know. All I know is that it's not recommended to go to Transnistria and that the Transistrian authorities might delay your trip / ask for bribe / etc. if you get there.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 09:03 PM   #9514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
There were similar roads between Holland and Germany even before Schengen, don't know the exact location though (a link would be appreciated).
The Dutch road N274 was previously not connected to the German road network.

For some reason I am not allowed to post a link here, but the neares city is called Selfkant.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 09:07 PM   #9515
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
To be honest: I don't really know. All I know is that it's not recommended to go to Transnistria and that the Transistrian authorities might delay your trip / ask for bribe / etc. if you get there.
You must register if you intend to stay longer than a day. People who don't do that open themselves for delays, bribes etc.

But I am interested in the nature of these crossings, who controls them, are there checkpoints on both sides, do they cooperate, how does Moldova act regarding stamps on crossings with Ukraine etc.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 09:19 PM   #9516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Foreign passports bearing Kosovo stamps from crossings to Macedonia and Albania have those stamps annulled, although I think this doesn't happen at the checkpoint but when leaving Serbia to Croatia, Hungary, or wherever.
My stamps from Kosovo (entering at Kula, exiting at Djeneral Jankovic) was annulled a couple of years later when entering Serbia at Nikola Tesla airport.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 09:23 PM   #9517
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I've read somewhere, I don't remember where (maybe back in this thread?), that it's possible to drive Moldova -> Transnistria -> Ukraine, but not the other way around (you must cross directly from Ukraine to Moldova). However it was some time ago, I don't know if it's still like this.
However it's not a place where you go for tourism.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 09:31 PM   #9518
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However it's not a place where you go for tourism.
Kosovo is not exactly a hotspot either but people still go there. But I think with Transnistria it's the other way around, I think they want less control rather than more. I could be wrong though, it's just an impression I've got from some news reports a while ago.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 11:20 PM   #9519
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
EU laws. Citizens of all countries, but EU, Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein need passport to enter EU.
There were particular exceptions too, for example Croats before joining EU were able to visit Italy, Slovenia and Hungary with ID only (but not other EU countries). Maybe they will do something similar to Serbs, when Serbia will be closer to the EU.
Andorra, San Marino, Monaco, Vatican city and so on haven't customs to check every citizen that entry in the EU...
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Old January 30th, 2014, 11:47 PM   #9520
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But except Monaco with its international harbor, in these countries you can only enter and exit from/to EU member States.


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