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Old February 26th, 2014, 12:14 AM   #9821
alserrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrads1980 View Post
This is not true. In the cordoba agreement, amongst other thing Gibraltar promised to grant Spain dual use of the new airport, which would be built alongside the frontier. For their part Spain would build a terminal on the Spanish side which would join into it. Unfortunately Spain reneged on this agreement, just as it had renaged on every other agreement concerning Gibraltar.

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Do you mean about this terminal which started operating on November 2011?



And its scheme





An Iberia airplane (or British airways, as you will know it is the same company) operated a Madrid-Gibraltar for a year or so.
Not enough passengers and HSL to Malaga (which made a reduction time to Antequera, La Linea, Algeciras and so) with its concurrence made this fligth to dissapear. Furthermore, it is a pity but that airport had many flights than now.

It is not operating due to no flights but you can consider the terminal as binational.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 12:23 AM   #9822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post



An Iberia airplane (or British airways, as you will know it is the same company) operated a Madrid-Gibraltar for a year or so.
Not enough passengers and HSL to Malaga (which made a reduction time to Antequera, La Linea, Algeciras and so) with its concurrence made this fligth to dissapear. Furthermore, it is a pity but that airport had many flights than now.

It is not operating due to no flights but you can consider the terminal as binational.
Yes. I live in Gibraltar so I use that airport terminal fairly regularly. Spain was supposed to build an annexe, you would be able to land in Gibraltar and exit via the annexe, where the guardia civil would check your passport etc.

The plans didn't materialise, I think mainly because because the alcalde of la linear refused to sell the land to madrid. Now with the Pp in power in Spain and the current political climate it is unlikely to ever be built.

You are correct in that Iberia tried to run flights to Madrid, and air andalus also tried flight to Madrid and Barcelona, but they didn't work. There's not much appetite to go to Spain these days. Not with two hour queues to walk across, let alone drive across.

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Old February 26th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #9823
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Ristorante al Confine (Border Restaurant) between Italy and San Marino.
https://maps.google.it/maps?q=mappa+...,51.5,,0,-1.63
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Old February 26th, 2014, 01:16 AM   #9824
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WTF! White house in the left belongs to Italy, San Marino or to a black hole?

Are they tax differences over the border?
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Old February 26th, 2014, 01:32 AM   #9825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
WTF! White house in the left belongs to Italy, San Marino or to a black hole?

Are they tax differences over the border?
Yes, every country has its own taxation system. In San Marino they pay less taxes and there's no VAT.
There are many small roads, sometimes even unmarked, crossing that border.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 10:04 AM   #9826
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Ceuta, Spain seen from Gibraltar, UK and La Línea de la Concepción.

[IMG]http://i59.************/23wpkxu.jpg[/IMG]
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Old February 26th, 2014, 10:27 AM   #9827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikkodemo View Post
Ceuta, Spain seen from Gibraltar, UK and La Línea de la Concepción.

[IMG]http://i59.************/23wpkxu.jpg[/IMG]
Great composition, indeed....
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Old February 26th, 2014, 11:52 AM   #9828
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The infrastructure on the Gibraltar/Spanish border really is quite shocking. Neither side has anywhere near enough capacity for the amount of traffic that crosses daily, and the EU completely failed to bang their heads together when they had the chance.

There really should be a modern joint border station built in this wasteland here - http://goo.gl/maps/8XIXv . The current arrangements are nowhere near satisfactory enough - both Spain and Gibraltar do a terrible job of actually checking the identity of travellers. Spain in particular needs to start doing a proper job with conducting Schengen checks.

Of course, the most sensible solution would be for Gibraltar to join Schengen. There are already border controls between the UK and Gibraltar - so there's no reason whatsoever for Gibraltar to remain outside the Schengen area.

Incidentally, why on earth couldn't Spain and Gibraltar come to an agreement to at least have an exit to La Linea from the airport? I understand that building the Spainsh annexe might have been problematic - but would it really have been so difficult to come to an agreement to have someone from the Guardia Civil based next to an exit door? It would only take a small container...
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Old February 26th, 2014, 03:32 PM   #9829
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This map can fit in this thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venividi View Post
[IMG]http://i60.************/2ptx7ag.jpg[/IMG]
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Old February 26th, 2014, 04:10 PM   #9830
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It is quite odd and out of date.

Andorra was absolutely feudal until several decades ago. They approved their Constitution to have a legal system approached to all European countries. It is true they had their own laws until then and had to manage with banking systems, customs, trade, shopping and so on... with the best interpretation of a feudal law they could do. But after constitution I do not find anything special in that country (apart of their tax situation and in 30 km you have crossed the whole country)
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Old February 26th, 2014, 11:27 PM   #9831
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This guy makes some very interesting videos.

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Old February 26th, 2014, 11:40 PM   #9832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
This guy makes some very interesting videos.
And even that is an understatement!
CGP Grey makes awesome videos, along with Vsauce and a lot more
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Old February 27th, 2014, 12:12 AM   #9833
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The problem with the border isn't the infrastructure, it is the attitude of the Spanish pp government. Since August last year there have been stringent border controls, at the worst it has taken seven hours to cross the road frontier, and up to two hours to walk across. There have also been two hour queues to walk across. Despite what the Spanish say it is politically motivate. The guardia civil deliberately go slow. They will stop your car, make you open the boot and then disappear for five minutes, come back and tell you to go. It's all rather sad because la Linea badly needs the income but no one from Gibraltar will cross into Spain to spend money any more.

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Old February 27th, 2014, 12:18 AM   #9834
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As an example here is what the queue to walk out was like yesterday
This is a modern european border. It is a disgrace. You can see the queue for cars in the distance.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 04:50 AM   #9835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrads1980 View Post
The problem with the border isn't the infrastructure, it is the attitude of the Spanish pp government. Since August last year there have been stringent border controls, at the worst it has taken seven hours to cross the road frontier, and up to two hours to walk across. There have also been two hour queues to walk across. Despite what the Spanish say it is politically motivate. The guardia civil deliberately go slow. They will stop your car, make you open the boot and then disappear for five minutes, come back and tell you to go. It's all rather sad because la Linea badly needs the income but no one from Gibraltar will cross into Spain to spend money any more.
The infrastructure isn't fit for purpose there. Gibraltar barely bothers to check who is entering/leaving because they don't have the facilities to do it, and the Spanish controls are clearly not in any way suited to the mission.

A modern checkpoint would make sense there. There's so much land available in La Linea that it could easily be built, and it should be big enough so that both the Spanish and Gibraltarian authorities can conduct proper checks at the border. The current situation just doesn't work - look at the queues of traffic in La Linea trying to enter Gibraltar, and you can see that the facility just isn't suitable.

Then when they ramp up the pressure for whatever reason, the whole border area is overwhelmed. I don't object to systematic passport checks, nor do I object to Spain carrying out proper fiscal controls - but it should be done properly in a proper environment.

Do you know if the queues for pedestrians were caused by the Spanish simply checking everyone properly? Gibraltar has always seemed to want Spain to have very relaxed controls on the border - but don't forget, it *is* an external Schengen border and a Customs border for fiscal purposes.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 05:04 AM   #9836
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Talking about videos, this is an excellent resume:

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Old February 27th, 2014, 08:57 AM   #9837
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12 minutes quite interesting.

A sum up about topics we have been talking here
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Old February 27th, 2014, 10:06 AM   #9838
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Does anybody know where the guy speaking in the video's accent is from? Is quite amusing, and difficult to follow...
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Old February 27th, 2014, 02:56 PM   #9839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
The infrastructure isn't fit for purpose there. Gibraltar barely bothers to check who is entering/leaving because they don't have the facilities to do it, and the Spanish controls are clearly not in any way suited to the mission.

A modern checkpoint would make sense there. There's so much land available in La Linea that it could easily be built, and it should be big enough so that both the Spanish and Gibraltarian authorities can conduct proper checks at the border. The current situation just doesn't work - look at the queues of traffic in La Linea trying to enter Gibraltar, and you can see that the facility just isn't suitable.

Then when they ramp up the pressure for whatever reason, the whole border area is overwhelmed. I don't object to systematic passport checks, nor do I object to Spain carrying out proper fiscal controls - but it should be done properly in a proper environment.

Do you know if the queues for pedestrians were caused by the Spanish simply checking everyone properly? Gibraltar has always seemed to want Spain to have very relaxed controls on the border - but don't forget, it *is* an external Schengen border and a Customs border for fiscal purposes.
Right on all counts. There are two issues at hand here, the first is the wider issues of the sovereignty of Gibraltar. Gibraltartarians would believe that it should rightfully rest with the UK, and the Spanish contributors to the group would believe it should be Spanish. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it's not one thats appropriate to discuss in this thread.

However the spanish government (do not confuse the Spanish Government with the Spanish People) do confuse this issue.

Firstly Gibraltar. For their part they need to be performing exit checks on goods and people. (The UK does not exit check either). In fact they have been told to by the EU and if you read the Gibraltar Chronicle you will see that there has been a planning application submitted to give four inbound green channels and outbound lanes for exit checks.

The Spanish have periods though where they will extensively check everything. We are talking rummaging around in ladies handbags and peoples pockets very slowly and deliberatley. Searching every single person and car very meticilously in an effort to cause queues. Searching cars in the green channel without pulling them to the side. They have triple filters. I.e three seperate Guardia Civil checkpoints all searching every car individually. Then as if by magic the queues disappear. Its very frustrating when your car is stopped and they dont even search it, just jold you for five minutes and then let you go. then the car behind you takes it's turn. Or standing for hours in a pedestrian queue in the rain and wind with children, elderly and disabled people. Its inhuman. And what's the excuse for the inbound queues when they do the same there. There isnt a great deal being smuggled out of Spain into Gibraltar

Lets not forget that although Schengan and the customs union does apply, the EU right to free movement of EU citizens does appy.

Finally a joined up properly operated border would be great. In the current political climate it will never happen.

Last edited by gbrads1980; February 27th, 2014 at 02:57 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:41 PM   #9840
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Does anybody know where the guy speaking in the video's accent is from? Is quite amusing, and difficult to follow...
yeah, extremely weird. Lesotho [lesutu]
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