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Old March 11th, 2014, 01:41 AM   #9921
italystf
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The Italian town of Pontebba (Pontafel in German, not used anymore) was the border crossing between the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Kingdom of Italy between 1866 and 1918.
In 1866, with the Third Italian War of Independence, Veneto and most of Friuli were annexed from Austria-Hungary to Italy. In 1918, after WWI, the Austrian-Hungarian empire collapsed and Trentino, Alto Adige, the rest of Friuli (Cervignano and Tarvisio districts), Venezia Giulia (Trieste and Gorizia), Istria (not Fiume) and Zara were annexed to Italy.

This is a old border stone still standing in Pontebba.

Notice the weird distance marking: IX 3/10 (9,3) myriameters to Klagenfurt. The myriameter was an ancient metric measurement unit, equivalent to 10km, so this place it's 93km from Klagenfurt. This unit is still unofficially used in Sweden and Norway, where is called mil.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old March 11th, 2014, 01:44 AM   #9922
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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
But the whole point of Schengen was to make crossing the border faster, and now to get rid of the border point, it's going to take longer to cross than in the old days

And definitely on the blank speed limits, just like im Deutschland!
Blank speed limit doesn't mean no speed limit like in Germany, but "standard" speed limit for every kind of road (urban, rural, expressway, motorway). A panel with standard speed limit for every category of road in that country stands at every European border crossing (except Republic of Ireland - Northern Ireland and some very small crossings elsewhere).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 02:52 AM   #9923
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A question for Slovak people, why is here no border crossing? http://goo.gl/maps/1awFa
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Old March 11th, 2014, 03:04 AM   #9924
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I was looking for some info and I found out that Slovakia and Ukraine agreed to build a new border crossing at Cierna-Solomonovo, in 2008. Then I found an answer from the minister of finance dated 9.12.2013 saying that there is the plan to build this border crossing.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 12:01 PM   #9925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
This is partially correct. As the first countries (UK & Ireland) that gave unlimited rights to access the labor market to the new "Eastern 8" weren't members of the Schengen Treaty, thus they've non formally accepted most of it (freedom of movement), but wanted to keep possibility of checks at the border. IMHO, It was more a political strategy (cheap wide labor without visas, to cut wages in some sector) that an "out" of Schengen policies, which UK or Ireland have, in fact, not adopted at all.
The UK and Ireland actually have adopted most of Schengen except the dropping of controls at the frontier and the common visa policy. It's a myth to suggest that the UK and Ireland aren't in Schengen, they simply don't apply the part of the acquis that applies to physical controls. The problem for the UK and Ireland is that the signatories to the Schengen agreement refused to give them access to SIS unless they dropped the controls.

As for the first countries to open the labour market, that was always a red herring - self employment was permitted from Day 1 in every single EU country. The self employment route is why Germany saw next to no increase in immigration from Poland in May 2011.

What made the UK and Ireland quite appealing was the large amount of vacancies in menial jobs during the boom times. Nothing more, nothing less. Well, and the fact that the Pound was exceptionally strong then.



Quote:
Why are you denying reality? In many areas of the "new 8", villages or towns are being emptied of most of their population, sometime even leaving ghost towns behind. Never before (during peace time) the emigration of these "8" was so great in such short period of time. One would think that emigration will stop with further development and rises of standards of living, but it's haven't shown up till now; per example, in Poland emigration reached a record high last year while it never had such an economic development and achievements in the past.
What reality? Those villages are dying for numerous reasons, not least because people escape them to escape the attitudes found within. No-one wants to stay in a small village in Podlasie where they can't breathe without the local priest knowing about it, hence the exodus. I'd also argue that the Polish family culture causes quite a few people to escape as far away as possible to avoid being blackmailed/bullied into returning home frequently.

Let's not forget that no-one stays in villages in Poland if they can help it. They leave for the big towns, and it's a pattern that's continued for many, many years. 2004 was nothing new.

Quote:
Also, it's a predominantly one-way exodus (most of its people never comes back), as the contrary is still very very marginal (move of Westerners to Eastern EU countries).
From what I understand, plenty are coming back once they realise that there's more to life than washing dishes.

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Enough of talking, here are some facts, in reserve you consider statistics at all:
Those numbers don't seem particularly shocking, especially in light of the numbers leaving Britain every year. It also shows that your claim that they are concentrated in "6 or 7" countries is false.

I must ask, are you Polish? If not, then I suggest you don't understand the cultural dynamics behind the emigration. I know at least three or four individuals who emigrated not because of a better life, but because they were sick to death of their family interfering in almost everything they did. One of them simply left because her grandparents would disapprove of her living with her boyfriend, and upsetting the grandparents meant upsetting her mother.

And of course, the UK is a far easier option for someone without an education.

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Than again I must disagree. USA is a federal state with a nationwide citizenship, and a common culture, traditions and language. In Europe it's different, unfortunately, there is nothing like a "European citizenship", nor it's even close from being a federal state, and has nearly as many different culture, traditions and languages than it counts in countries part of the "Union".
The thing is that the EU does work more or less as a union. For me, it makes no difference if I work in Poland, the UK, Estonia or Portugal, I have the same rights and I'm treated in the same way as a local. That's what matters to most people, especially as they couldn't care less about the arguments in Brussels.

European citizenship certainly exists, and many Europeans take advantage of it every single day.

A small example. I can bring as much fruit from Poland into Germany as I want. No-one is controlling me, no-one is checking. Yet if I go from Nevada to California, well... I better not have any!

Quote:
Yet, It's based mostly on a voluntary and cooperation between EU and sovereign countries basis; take this question as an example, what would happen if Front National wins elections in France and wants to get rid unilaterally of EU? Would there be anything to prevent them from doing so? Furthermore, disparities between countries (even when narrowing) are still enormous.
In nearly 60 years of union, not one party has won an election with a mandate to leave any of the structures. That should tell you something about the impossibility of the Front Nationale to actually win. Even in Greece, the anti-EU parties couldn't win, and that was at a point when anger towards the EU was very very high.

As for the disparities between the countries, they are certainly narrowing quickly. A quick look between Eastern Germany and wealthier parts of Western Poland shows you that there is really little to no difference these days.

Poland is actually in a very fortunate situation, as she is able to educate most of her citizens well, and the ones who don't want to get an education tend to leave and are thus less of a drain on society. Works for me.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 11:04 PM   #9926
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What do you know about this border crossing between HR and BiH?
http://goo.gl/maps/x2auk

Is it an official crossing? Can it be crossed by car?
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Old March 11th, 2014, 11:41 PM   #9927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
A small example. I can bring as much fruit from Poland into Germany as I want. No-one is controlling me, no-one is checking. Yet if I go from Nevada to California, well... I better not have any!
Are there restrictions about movement of goods within the United States?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 12th, 2014, 12:34 AM   #9928
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By the way, which countries have restriction about goods inside it? (for instance Spain)
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Old March 12th, 2014, 12:36 AM   #9929
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By the way, which countries have restriction about goods inside it? (for instance Spain)
You mean between the Canary Islands, Ceuta and Melilla and the rest of the country?
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Old March 12th, 2014, 12:49 AM   #9930
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Some countries have "special tax areas" within them: Livigno and Campione d'Italia in Italy, Buesingen in Germany, Samnaun in Switzerland, Man and Channel Islands in the UK, Faer Oer and Greenland in Denmark.

There are some cases of de facto independent countries that are usually regarded as part of another country in terms of international law but de facto they are sovereign and don't depend from another country.
Those are: Abkhazia and South Ossetia (officially part of Georgia), Transnistria (officially part of Moldova), the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (officially part of the Republic of Cyprus), Nagorno Karabakh (officially part of Azerbaijan), Palestine (officially part of Israel\Jordan, partly occupied by Israel), Western Sahara (partly occupied by Morocco), Somaliland (officially part of Somalia) and Azawad (officially part of Mali).
Also Honk Kong and Macau, although de jure Speical Administrative Regions of China, are de facto independent.
Some French, British and Dutch oversea territories have a very large autonomy and a different fiscal system, so there are probably limitations to export goods.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; March 12th, 2014 at 12:58 AM.
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Old March 12th, 2014, 12:50 AM   #9931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Are there restrictions about movement of goods within the United States?
I don't think so, at least not for private people, and trade barriers across states is expressly illegal under Constitution.

But it reminds me of an interesting point... EU countries with immigrants from other EU nations being complaining, but the USA will take the same people and say "Welcome!" only. I guess it comes from the history of the country, but it is interesting to note. Some Polish signs in UK was an international story, but Polish signs in Chicago have been for ever
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Old March 12th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #9932
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Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
You mean between the Canary Islands, Ceuta and Melilla and the rest of the country?
Yes, they have a special fiscal regime.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 12th, 2014, 01:06 AM   #9933
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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I don't think so, at least not for private people, and trade barriers across states is expressly illegal under Constitution.

But it reminds me of an interesting point... EU countries with immigrants from other EU nations being complaining, but the USA will take the same people and say "Welcome!" only. I guess it comes from the history of the country, but it is interesting to note. Some Polish signs in UK was an international story, but Polish signs in Chicago have been for ever
The USA is not the multi-ethnic paradise like many people think. The average white American is still richer and more educated than the average Afro-American. And in some cities Afro-Americans are still concentrated in some suburbs, where whites don't want to live and housing prices stay lower. Even if legalized racial discrimination was abolished during Kennedy government more than 50 years ago racism is still widespread. And people subjected to this racism are Americans like others, live in the USA for centuries, have the same culture, same language, same passport, just different skin colour. Not undocumented immigrants who just arrived with a wrecked boat.
And white Europeans who immigrated in the early XX century weren't treated like princes either...
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 12th, 2014, 01:41 AM   #9934
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I don't think there is quite so much racism, but there is certainly a "gap" between white people and black people in terms of average incomes, but also in education, crime, normal families, etc. It's a huge complex topic, but with the situation we can't say it is... "black and white" like it was in pre-Lincoln days (after all there is Obama and many successful people of all colours)

There are concentrations of skin colour in neighborhoods with low / high values, but I think it is more a wealth thing than a race thing (rich people don't like poor neighborhoods where your car gets stolen all the time)

But if you came on the boat from Italy today you would go right in with the white people and everyone would think it awesome.
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Old March 12th, 2014, 04:34 AM   #9935
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
The USA is not the multi-ethnic paradise like many people think. The average white American is still richer and more educated than the average Afro-American.
The average any group is richer and more educated than the average AA.

Last edited by tripleaxl; March 12th, 2014 at 04:49 AM.
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Old March 12th, 2014, 08:31 AM   #9936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Are there restrictions about movement of goods within the United States?
http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/PE/inte...t_summary.html
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Old March 12th, 2014, 11:30 AM   #9937
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This looks more like a border crossing than those inner schengen borders:

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Old March 12th, 2014, 12:07 PM   #9938
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Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
By the way, which countries have restriction about goods inside it? (for instance Spain)
Finland; between Åland and the rest of the republic.

The best known example is the quota for the import of alcohol; in this sense Åland is treated like any non-EU territory.
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Old March 12th, 2014, 12:39 PM   #9939
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Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
What do you know about this border crossing between HR and BiH?
http://goo.gl/maps/x2auk

Is it an official crossing? Can it be crossed by car?
Not at all, there is no border crossing... there is a panoramio pic someone took at that place:

http://goo.gl/maps/t6H2z
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Old March 12th, 2014, 01:02 PM   #9940
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ok, so Google Maps is wrong there

EDIT: Another thing, I don't see any monument or such for the tripoint between HR/MNE/BiH
Also, no pictures on Panoramio.

This is an interesting site about Tripoints
http://www.ibrg.info/palmberg/index.html

Last edited by cinxxx; March 12th, 2014 at 01:20 PM.
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