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Old March 19th, 2014, 02:52 AM   #9981
italystf
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Estonian dirt road, across the river it's Russia
https://www.google.it/maps/@57.87186...SmSpTduupQ!2e0
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 19th, 2014, 03:02 AM   #9982
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One of the most scenic border crossings: Narva (EST) - Ivangorod (RUS).
The border is the Narva river with two castles at each side

Ivangorod is still a "closed city", that can be visited only with a permit or with a visa valid to cross the border.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Fab87, BringMe, WB2010, verreme, Corvinus and 2 others liked this post
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Old March 19th, 2014, 03:09 AM   #9983
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So, you need a special visa to get into Ivangorod?

If somebody wants to drive between Estonia and Russia cannot cross the city?
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Old March 19th, 2014, 03:23 AM   #9984
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As far I understand, the whole strip of Russian land along the EU border is accessible only with permit. If you travel between EST and RUS you already have the visa so you probably can go there. However, a Russian (or anyone who is in Russia) can't approach the border without permit even if he doesn't cross it. So you need a permit to go from Saint Petersburg to Ivangorod (Google street view shows a border station between Ivangorod and the rest of Russia).

Also in Finland you can't go too close to Russia without permit.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old March 19th, 2014, 11:28 AM   #9985
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Aren't some of these barricades in Slovenia just regular measures put in place to reduce traffic on minor rural roads? Sometimes you see that well within bigger countries like France or Spain - they block access to a minor rural dirt road as a way to avoid it being used as some detour.

I have a question: before 1989, were borders between USSR republics clearly marked and guarded, or not?
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Old March 19th, 2014, 11:51 AM   #9986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Ivangorod is still a "closed city", that can be visited only with a permit or with a visa valid to cross the border.
Need of visa means closed city ?

Closed cities in Russia are those were foreigners are not allowed to visit even with visas, like cities close to military bases like, Severomorsk, Arzamas.

When you apply for a russian visa you have to confirm what cities you intend to visit.

I passed through this border by car in 1998. Narva is worth seeing, but Ivangorod is a drab place not very interesting for tourists.

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

Last edited by NordikNerd; March 19th, 2014 at 11:56 AM.
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Old March 19th, 2014, 12:28 PM   #9987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Aren't some of these barricades in Slovenia just regular measures put in place to reduce traffic on minor rural roads? Sometimes you see that well within bigger countries like France or Spain - they block access to a minor rural dirt road as a way to avoid it being used as some detour.

I have a question: before 1989, were borders between USSR republics clearly marked and guarded, or not?
This road between Gorizia and Nova Gorica is still closed to cars, probably to avoid through traffic here (there's plenty of other crossings nearby).

I don't think there were border controls between Soviet republics since they were only administrative borders (those "republics" didn't have any autonomy at all). This may explain the existence of some divided cities, like Valga\Valka and Narva\Ivangorod, as well as the famous Estonian road that crosses a bit of Russia.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 19th, 2014, 12:37 PM   #9988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Need of visa means closed city ?

Closed cities in Russia are those were foreigners are not allowed to visit even with visas, like cities close to military bases like, Severomorsk, Arzamas.

When you apply for a russian visa you have to confirm what cities you intend to visit.

I passed through this border by car in 1998. Narva is worth seeing, but Ivangorod is a drab place not very interesting for tourists.
As you can see on Street View, there's a border control between Ivangorod and the rest of Russia. On the other hand, there's probably no controls at all all the way from Saint Petersburg to Vladivostock.
https://www.google.it/maps/@59.37740...CcjwfxTbTw!2e0
Do a foreign really need to declare what cities plan to visit when he get the Russian visa? One can't simply get the visa and drive freely across the country with the only limitation of leaving the country before the visa expires?
During communism my father visited Czechoslovakia and Romania with his car. For both countries, he had to get the visa well in the advance, police officers checked everything in his car at the border and asked several generic questions like "where are you going?", "how long will you stay?", but once in the country nobody cared in what cities they went, nor they had the means to enforce that.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 19th, 2014, 02:12 PM   #9989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
In Russia you can't approach the EU border without autorization: they have those signs (and also the Google Car stopped there):
https://www.google.it/maps/@57.77493...C_FpMkK8uQ!2e0
The worst possible English translation, BTW.
This is a border between Latvia and Estonia. What it has to do with Russia?
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Old March 19th, 2014, 03:13 PM   #9990
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morrocco- european border in melilla

source , elnortedecastilla.es
europe , untill when this ????
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Old March 19th, 2014, 11:58 PM   #9991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
In Russia you can't approach the EU border without autorization: they have those signs (and also the Google Car stopped there):
https://www.google.it/maps/@57.77493...C_FpMkK8uQ!2e0
The worst possible English translation, BTW.
Eh? This isn't Russia. Wrong link maybe.
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Old March 20th, 2014, 04:19 PM   #9992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I have a question: before 1989, were borders between USSR republics clearly marked and guarded, or not?
Clearly marked, I don't know.

Guarded, may be ; the russians had - and still have, I can witness it - the
habit to guard everything : large bridges, tunnel entrances, etc.

But I don't believe there were travel restrictions. Roads and railways were l
laid with no regards to the republic borders, so you might end up crossing the
borders 4 or 5 times when going from Russia to Khazakstan, for example. At
the time of USSR this had no importance whatsoever, but now it's another
story...
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Old March 20th, 2014, 11:56 PM   #9993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
This is a border between Latvia and Estonia. What it has to do with Russia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Eh? This isn't Russia. Wrong link maybe.
Sorry, this is the correct link.
On the road M11-E20 from Russia towards Estonia, there's a border control well before the actual border. Traffic between Ivangorod and the rest of Russia has to stop.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 21st, 2014, 01:33 AM   #9994
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How does it fit with "propiska" internal passport system? Or was it only for residence and travel was free?
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Old March 21st, 2014, 10:07 AM   #9995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
How does it fit with "propiska" internal passport system? Or was it only for residence and travel was free?
Propiska is your adress where you are nationally registered. All russian citizens have a national passport and optionally an international one.

If you come from another region to Moscow for work and you don't have a moscow registration (propiska) the police may ask you questions and even send you back home.

In Sweden you can register on any adress, even if it's not your apartment. In Russia it's not that easy. If you register on an adress you will also have the right of the ownership of that apartment, so the landlord will not register you. To receive a registration involves a great deal of burocracy.
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Old March 21st, 2014, 05:47 PM   #9996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Clearly marked, I don't know.

Guarded, may be ; the russians had - and still have, I can witness it - the
habit to guard everything : large bridges, tunnel entrances, etc.

But I don't believe there were travel restrictions. Roads and railways were l
laid with no regards to the republic borders, so you might end up crossing the
borders 4 or 5 times when going from Russia to Khazakstan, for example. At
the time of USSR this had no importance whatsoever, but now it's another
story...
The borders were marked as were the borders of subdivisions of republics, towns and so on. But the borders weren't guarded. The borders were just like borders of German's states. It was one big USSR and they didn't care if you cross these borders of republics or not. You had to carry your identification all the time and militsiya had the right to ask for it wherever needed. But it was much clever to do it around railway and bus stations and so on and not on some forest tracks. There were numerous areas and towns which were closed without permits and they had guards at borders of this areas.
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Old March 21st, 2014, 09:37 PM   #9997
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Interestingly, for some short period of time, on the beginning of the eighties, during so called martial law in Poland, people had to obtain a special visa to cross voivodships' borders (49 back then). This law was rather ignored by many, however some who were caught without valid visa could be penalized.
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Old March 22nd, 2014, 01:12 AM   #9998
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Is the border crossing between HR and BiH at Trebimlja/Čepikuće open for everyone? What about Orahov Do/Slano?
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Old March 22nd, 2014, 02:57 PM   #9999
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Those are for local people only.

It is strange anyway that that is not signed until you reach the border. And then it is too late (if you are not a local ) and you should turn around.
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Old March 22nd, 2014, 03:27 PM   #10000
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Both of them are only for locals?

I can't really find an official document regarding border crossings, but if you look for example here, you see this, so Trebimlja/Čepikuće should be ok for all, while Orahov Do/Slano only for locals:


d) border crossing points for international road traffic of passengers:

1. Hrvatska Kostajnica – Kostajnica
2. Dvor – Novi Grad
3. Užljebi? – Ripa?
4. Aržano – Prisika
5. Orah – Orahovlje
6. Mali Prolog – Crveni Grm
7. Prud – Zviri?i
8. Metkovic – Doljani
9. Cepikuce – Trebimlja


e) permanent border crossing points for local border traffic:

1. Svilaj – Donji Svilaj
2. Hrvatska Dubica – Kozarska Dubica
3. Gejkovac – Plazikur
4. Pašin Potok – Zagrad
5. Bogovolja – Hadžin Potok
6. Kordunski Ljeskovac – Trža?ka Raštela
7. Li?ka Kaldrma – Kaldrma
8. Bili Brig – Vaganj
9. Aržano Pazar – Vinica
10. Dvorine – Subaši?i
11. Cera – Vir
12. Jovi?a Most – ?itluk
13. Sebišina – Drinovci
14. Slivno – Drinova?ko Brdo
15. Podprolog – Prolog
16. Gabela Polje I – Gabela
17. Unka – Unka
18. Vukov Klanac – Radež
19. Imotica – Duži
20. Slano – Orahov Do
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