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Old July 9th, 2014, 02:45 AM   #10761
Penn's Woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvinus View Post
Well, after the terrorist attacks of 9/11, the border to Canada was actually a subject of debates - as potential backdoor for Islamist terrorists wanting to sneak in ...
I have never crossed that border but heard from others that in the 1990's still, a simple driver's license was sufficient to pass - and things have gotten a lot stricter since.
Yes, an ID - such as a driver's license - and your word was enough. Until well after 2001.

By "your word," I mean they asked you what country you were a citizen of and you told them.

(And not just a potential back door, but that one actual incident of the so-called Millennium Bomber. Don't get me wrong, though: I love Canada and think that that border should be as easy as possible to cross. Actually, a friend I was just talking to today spent the weekend in Ottawa and was complaining about the "woman at the border" on the way home. Didn't go into it in detail, though....)
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Old July 9th, 2014, 02:48 AM   #10762
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Originally Posted by Stainless View Post
I heard this change was implemented quite quickly, meaning some people had to rush to get passports to cross when one was not needed before.

On the subject of locals-only border crossings, are there any NEXUS only crossings on the US-Canada border?
I don't know how quickly the change was implemented, but it certainly wasn't right away after 9/11. (Well, maybe the requirement to be able to prove citizenship was implemented right away, but you don't actually need a passport as far as I know - I used my birth certificate in 2003. My passport at the time was expired. Since then I've used my (new) passport, but I got one so I'd be able to go elsewhere.)
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Old July 9th, 2014, 10:24 AM   #10763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainless View Post
On the subject of locals-only border crossings, are there any NEXUS only crossings on the US-Canada border?
The Whirlpool Bridge in Buffalo is Nexus-only, apparently. From looking around, it seems to be the only one. It's strange, because you'd think that Nexus-only crossings would make sense in places like Stanstead-Derby Line.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 12:23 PM   #10764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Oh yes, those pesky illegal Canadian immigrants. Constantly saying sorry all the time!

What if they are terrorists?

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Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
That's probably a Hellenic point of view, maybe you just haven't got your share of nice neighbours (no offence anyone...!) but I can only assume that U.S.Americans and Canadians don't see it this way.
Living next to a border crossing is a challenge, in any way you look at it.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 12:26 PM   #10765
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Originally Posted by Skyline_ View Post

What if they are terrorists?

Living next to a border crossing is a challenge, in any way you look at it.
Probably where you are.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 03:54 PM   #10766
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I've never crossed the US-Canada border, but judring by its length, it is certainly impossible to guard all of it. Surely it is easy to spot somebody crossing near a busy road, but what about this? http://goo.gl/maps/kBjFo

Or check this scarry barrier out http://goo.gl/maps/hxmXK

Surely locals are brainwashed into "looking for the wrong types", but the 9/11 terrorist weren't exactly the kind of types to wear loose dresses and long beards.

Bottom line: scare your own nation, it will be easier to control. At the some time remind the northern neighbour who they depend on.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 06:38 PM   #10767
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Originally Posted by LMB View Post
I've never crossed the US-Canada border, but judring by its length, it is certainly impossible to guard all of it. Surely it is easy to spot somebody crossing near a busy road, but what about this? http://goo.gl/maps/kBjFo

Or check this scarry barrier out http://goo.gl/maps/hxmXK

Surely locals are brainwashed into "looking for the wrong types", but the 9/11 terrorist weren't exactly the kind of types to wear loose dresses and long beards.

Bottom line: scare your own nation, it will be easier to control. At the some time remind the northern neighbour who they depend on.
This isn't too far away

http://goo.gl/maps/S3nP6

I was here last summer. The mailbox is for the house on the left but is for US mail for the house which has the border going through it. About 3/4 of the house is in Canada and about 1/4 in the US. There is a house to the south within throwing distance in the US. Now the border is closed and there is a fence. However the border cairn is north of the fence by a few metres.

Here are the photos I took. A very quiet spot on the US/Canada border

http://www.panoramio.com/user/3311774

I have other photos of Jamieson's Line and

here

http://goo.gl/maps/f6m2B
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Old July 9th, 2014, 11:09 PM   #10768
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Irun is a Spanish city located in the Basque country. It is boundaring with France (https://www.google.es/maps/place/Ir%...ff9f9180d14bb8) in the Atlantic ocean. The border is a river and for a long time Irun-Hendaye had only a bridge as border (and the railway). By the way, an important meeting took place in Hendaye while the WWII that could had change it.


But... Irun was looking back to France when the "Spanish closure" (the period that wasn't easy at all to go out of Spain) and remained as a single city, an important in the area with the case that they could grow only in one direction.

Today there aren't border booths and you can see a metropolitan area from St. Sebastian to Bayonne with the border in the middle... but the elderly people remember them with the river as a fence.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 01:33 AM   #10769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvinus View Post
Well, after the terrorist attacks of 9/11, the border to Canada was actually a subject of debates - as potential backdoor for Islamist terrorists wanting to sneak in ...
I have never crossed that border but heard from others that in the 1990's still, a simple driver's license was sufficient to pass - and things have gotten a lot stricter since.
Actually in 1990's it was simple verbal declaration "what is your citizenship" "OK go" (if Canadian. If you were from some country requiring visa or similar, would need one)

After 9/11 became requirement for the driver's license thing, and only after 2007-2008 became necessary to have passport or "enhanced" driver's license (with citizenship note and RFID chip)

However the 9/11 terrorists did not pass this border, and one islamic terrorist did, the "Millenium Bomber" in late 1999, who wished to blow up LA airport. He specificially chose an "easy" border point to sneak across, travelling ca. 5000 km from where he lived (east to west Canada).

But even then, the "lax" security caught him immediately (I guess, the nice lady asked "what is the purpose of your trip?" and he answered "destroy America!", "OK, why don't you have a seat over here" )

So all the extra security is stupid considering the old system worked perfectly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
The Whirlpool Bridge in Buffalo is Nexus-only, apparently. From looking around, it seems to be the only one. It's strange, because you'd think that Nexus-only crossings would make sense in places like Stanstead-Derby Line.
I believe there are NEXUS-only booths at Lacolle-Champlain and Stanstead-Derby Line. The bridges on the Niagara River are particular as there is huge traffic, and could warrant NEXUS-only bridge. The problem with having the simple booth, is there is often traffic backups on the bridge, so would still have to wait to cross. The Quebec crossings are much more common and have no space restrictions as they are on dry land. At Stanstead, I have no number, but the NEXUS-users must be less than 10% of travellers...
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Old July 10th, 2014, 03:01 AM   #10770
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There is definitely at least one NEXUS-only lane at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle (I-87/Autoroute 15 - on the New York/Montreal freeway route), at least northbound.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 09:52 AM   #10771
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I don't know how quickly the change was implemented, but it certainly wasn't right away after 9/11. (Well, maybe the requirement to be able to prove citizenship was implemented right away, but you don't actually need a passport as far as I know - I used my birth certificate in 2003. My passport at the time was expired. Since then I've used my (new) passport, but I got one so I'd be able to go elsewhere.)
Under the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, fully implemented now, a passport or passport card is required for land travel between Canada or Mexico and the United States.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 12:38 PM   #10772
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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I believe there are NEXUS-only booths at Lacolle-Champlain and Stanstead-Derby Line. The bridges on the Niagara River are particular as there is huge traffic, and could warrant NEXUS-only bridge. The problem with having the simple booth, is there is often traffic backups on the bridge, so would still have to wait to cross. The Quebec crossings are much more common and have no space restrictions as they are on dry land. At Stanstead, I have no number, but the NEXUS-users must be less than 10% of travellers...
What I don't understand is why they don't introduce NEXUS-only crossings in places where it would suit the locals. For instance - outside that famous library in Stanstead/Derby Line, wouldn't it actually make sense to install a NEXUS-only crossing for pedestrians there? As I understand it, the NEXUS cards are RFID-equipped, so it should be a simple process to set up some readers.

I understand not allowing vehicular traffic, but allowing locals to travel freely across the border makes sense. Back it up with random spot checks and everything will be fine.

With respects to Irun, does anyone know where trucks would have cleared customs? There's a very large grassy area in Irun here - https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3488...pocFKQmIzQ!2e0 - would this have been the site?
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Old July 10th, 2014, 12:54 PM   #10773
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I do not know about Irun customs... but I know that there are some places, not near of border areas at all, where you can declare goods to export anywhere. Customs will give you documentation and you can move free within EU.

(obviously if the freight doesn't match with the document it is smuggling)
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Old July 10th, 2014, 02:49 PM   #10774
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Under the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, fully implemented now, a passport or passport card is required for land travel between Canada or Mexico and the United States.
Duly noted.
I don't - well, didn't - know what the rule was now... At the time of my 2006 trip I was looking into whether I needed a passport but resolved the issue for myself by just deciding I might as well get one, and since then I just take it when I go to Canada.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 05:49 PM   #10775
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Irun is a Spanish city located in the Basque country. It is boundaring with France (https://www.google.es/maps/place/Ir%...ff9f9180d14bb8) in the Atlantic ocean. The border is a river and for a long time Irun-Hendaye had only a bridge as border (and the railway). By the way, an important meeting took place in Hendaye while the WWII that could had change it.


But... Irun was looking back to France when the "Spanish closure" (the period that wasn't easy at all to go out of Spain) and remained as a single city, an important in the area with the case that they could grow only in one direction.

Today there aren't border booths and you can see a metropolitan area from St. Sebastian to Bayonne with the border in the middle... but the elderly people remember them with the river as a fence.
Yes Alserrod, I live near Irun and I pass the frontier some days during month. I never have any problem and I'm proud to live near the frontier. I can go by car, metro and train. Since I was 10 years old I can cross frontier without any control.

I think that it was good to all towns and cities around or near the frontiers. (yes, I know that it was good to all countries of Europe) because tourism and commerce has growth a lot since 1995. And europeans of both side we can meet better and do good relationships.

Well, in Hendaye 50% of homes are property of spaniards. Majority from Gipuzkoa, Navarre and Biscay.

In terms of transport infraestructures, housing, public transport, sport infraestructures, Healthcare, Environment... I think that there are not diferences between South Basque Country and North Basque Country. The biggest difference are salaries, pensions, unemployment, etc. This is a country diference.

Well, France is France, and Spain is Spain.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 01:41 AM   #10776
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What I don't understand is why they don't introduce NEXUS-only crossings in places where it would suit the locals. For instance - outside that famous library in Stanstead/Derby Line, wouldn't it actually make sense to install a NEXUS-only crossing for pedestrians there? As I understand it, the NEXUS cards are RFID-equipped, so it should be a simple process to set up some readers.

I understand not allowing vehicular traffic, but allowing locals to travel freely across the border makes sense. Back it up with random spot checks and everything will be fine.

With respects to Irun, does anyone know where trucks would have cleared customs? There's a very large grassy area in Irun here - https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3488...pocFKQmIzQ!2e0 - would this have been the site?
I don't think there are enough pedestrians in Derby Line / Stanstead to warrant it... NEXUS still requires either the border guard to look at your, or the automated system to scan your retinas (action movie style, used in airports). For the library there might be like 5 people who will go inside and outside during a whole day, it makes no sense to pay a guard to stand there, so instead they pay a guard to sit there in a SUV and if you leave the library and go to a different country than you came from he will yell at you

Also if there is no waiting time at a crossing, NEXUS probably doesn't save much time compared to the passport.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 02:54 AM   #10777
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I don't think there are enough pedestrians in Derby Line / Stanstead to warrant it... NEXUS still requires either the border guard to look at your, or the automated system to scan your retinas (action movie style, used in airports). For the library there might be like 5 people who will go inside and outside during a whole day, it makes no sense to pay a guard to stand there, so instead they pay a guard to sit there in a SUV and if you leave the library and go to a different country than you came from he will yell at you
With all the technology available now, is there really any need to have a guard there at all? Cameras could monitor the area, and an automated system to do retina scans could allow border crossings. If it's really such a huge deal for the US, then they could easily have a guard sitting in an office somewhere watching the camera system and granting permission to cross on an individual basis.

But really, the most sensible solution is to have a system for locals living in such areas. They should be able to cross the border freely with border passes, and anyone wanting such a pass should agree to be vetted by the USA and Canada. Then there would be no more stupid stories about people getting arrested while going for pizza and so on.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 02:59 AM   #10778
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Realistically it is important to note the primary purpose of Canadian border control is preventing or hindering cross-border shopping, anything that would let Canadians bring in booze, smokes, gasoline and TV sets from Vermont without getting dinged on taxes would not go over well :P This despite "free trade" agreement

What is really needed is a Schengen-style system, which can work quite effectively as seen in the EU. Americans worry about terrorists but it isn't really an issue (though I guess, the maniac from France shooting up Jews in Belgie is a bad example)
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Old July 11th, 2014, 03:17 AM   #10779
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Realistically it is important to note the primary purpose of Canadian border control is preventing or hindering cross-border shopping, anything that would let Canadians bring in booze, smokes, gasoline and TV sets from Vermont without getting dinged on taxes would not go over well :P This despite "free trade" agreement
True, but that could easily be curtailed by not allowing the import of anything over a very limited amount through such crossings. If I remember rightly, the local border crossings in Europe (for instance, CZ/PL) didn't allow people to export/import anything other than what would normally be duty free.

One way to enforce it would be to require everything to be hand carried, and another way would be to prohibit anyone taking goods valued more than (for instance) $50 across those unmanned crossings, along with completely banning the transport of cigarettes/alcohol/etc.

Quote:
What is really needed is a Schengen-style system, which can work quite effectively as seen in the EU. Americans worry about terrorists but it isn't really an issue (though I guess, the maniac from France shooting up Jews in Belgie is a bad example)
Yes, I don't understand why Canada and the USA don't implement a mini-Schengen system. The whole point of Schengen is that the border vanishes, but then border controls can be carried out anywhere at any time. It would surely make more sense than bothering to monitor an incredibly open border anyway.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 07:26 PM   #10780
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What is really needed is a Schengen-style system, which can work quite effectively as seen in the EU. Americans worry about terrorists but it isn't really an issue (though I guess, the maniac from France shooting up Jews in Belgie is a bad example)
My mother, as a teenager in late 60's, was 'smuggling' coffee from Belgium to France. It was like "go along the road, over the bridge [this was the border], the shop is on the left".

There was border control only on the main road. This was never a guarded border, all they looked was cigarettes.
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