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Old September 5th, 2014, 11:31 AM   #11241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
For me, I find it hard to trust the Schengen system as long as many countries don't even conduct a so-called 'minimum check' on travellers.
If you want ghetto just move to North Korea you can trust their police and army.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 11:34 AM   #11242
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off-topic....

In the city where I live we have a quite small airport, it is the fifth city in the country, though. The reason is that there is a quite good high speed railway service (thus few domestic flights) and quite near to other major airports.


One day, with only three flights in the whole day, two of them where almost at the same time. Both of them operated by Ryanair and... two quite different destinations within fifteen minutes of departure.

Two passengers where seated in the wrong plane and arrived to a different destination!!!!!.

Amazing. Only three flights in that day and they have a mistake.

Ryanair was fined because it is clear that the number of passengers on board didn't match with the boarding cards taken as well as they had baggage in the planes (and it could be a bomb...).


They were both of them Schengen destinations (I think that Lanzarote and Bergamo) but should it happens with a charter flight... you can know how to take out from Schengen area... you just say nothing and any Schengen country authority would have requested your ID or passport...
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Old September 5th, 2014, 12:32 PM   #11243
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If you want ghetto just move to North Korea you can trust their police and army.
Nothing to do with a ghetto and everything to do with wanting the integrity and stability of the Schengen zone.

Ever been to Calais? If you had, you'd know why a strong external frontier is needed. The situation in Ceuta is similar - like it or hate it, the Schengen area is very attractive for economic migrants.

What's the point in Poland or Slovakia having strong external frontiers if France or Greece can't be bothered to secure it properly? I'm not asking for thorough examinations, but opening the passport and conducting a visual check isn't too much to ask for, is it?

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So what happens in Chania when two flights arrive at the same time, from Amsterdam and Moscow?
From a technical point of view, pretty simple - they let everyone from Amsterdam go first, then the border police can do their job. One interesting aspect about Schengen implementation in airports is that very few airports have separate "blue" and "green" lanes for the purposes of Customs control.

http://www.viennaairport.com/jart/pr...0899997799.jpg

I found an example here - the problem is that if you read the EU law which removed Customs barriers in 1993, it's clear that there should be no element of control - merging blue and green lane traffic means that there's still monitoring of individuals.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 01:12 PM   #11244
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they could just shift non-Schengen flights to a part of the terminal that can be easily barricaded off with passport controls.
And that's what airports with a mainly Schengen traffic regularly do.

I remember at El Prat how we were segregated from the rest of the airport (we were going to the UK) and had no access to shops or restaurant but just a McDonald's.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 01:23 PM   #11245
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what's with stability of Schengen zone, who should be EU afraid of so this should be so imperative? Building walls doesn't make stability, tearing them down does.

Economic migrants is so lame excuse. They can not start work if they just came to Schengen area, they need regular papers and working permits.
Checking papers and visual checks doesn't solve anything, entering Schengen area is not problem, staying there is.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 02:58 PM   #11246
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Lithuania-Poland-Russia tripoint.





And yes, that's me. Photo credits to Mirka Lintula.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 04:52 PM   #11247
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Train station Lille Europe in northern France.

Left part of the platform: In Schengen (train to Amsterdam departed here). Right part of the platform: outside Schengen (train to London departed here). Seperated by glass (as seen on the second picture). Pics taken inside the Schengen area




Passport control by both French and British police are done on this station:


Zoom:
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Old September 5th, 2014, 05:20 PM   #11248
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I read on a blog about someone spotting that tripoint, knowing he could be fined but as well that... it is not an easy tripoint to arrive
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Old September 5th, 2014, 07:20 PM   #11249
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Spotting will not be fined, but crossing it to/from Russia will be.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 07:47 PM   #11250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
I read on a blog about someone spotting that tripoint, knowing he could be fined but as well that... it is not an easy tripoint to arrive
Which do you mean? Lithuania-Poland-Russia-tripoint is very easy to arrive, just 100 metres from the nearest road (from Poland).

Finland-Norway-Russia, mentioned earlier in the thread, is harder - several kilometres from the nearest road (from Norway), and that road itself is pretty remote - 100 km from E6 which is the only connection to anywhere else.

In any case, there is nothing to be fined in either as long as you don't cross the Russian border. Finland-Norway as well as Lithuania-Poland borders can be crossed freely anywhere.

Just notice that Finland has a border zone towards Russia, and that zone begins right next to the tripoint; visiting the border zone requires a separate permit, which must be obtained from the Border Guard in advance. The border zone signs are clearly seen on Skyline's post.

There is, however, a narrow path between the border zone and Norway so that you can freely walk from the tripoint to the rest of Finland. Not that there'd be any point to a mere border spotter in doing so. There's nothing on the Finnish side except a hundred kilometres of wilderness with forests, swamps and lakes.
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Last edited by OulaL; September 5th, 2014 at 07:53 PM.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 08:34 PM   #11251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
I read on a blog about someone spotting that tripoint, knowing he could be fined but as well that... it is not an easy tripoint to arrive
I suspect it's rather like the PL-SK-UA tripoint - strictly speaking, it might be illegal to enter/leave Russia there, but no-one is going to hand out a fine to someone in the immediate tripoint area.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 08:42 PM   #11252
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Quote:
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In any case, there is nothing to be fined in either as long as you don't cross the Russian border. Finland-Norway as well as Lithuania-Poland borders can be crossed freely anywhere.
Unless you have something to declare, right? (FIN-N)
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Old September 5th, 2014, 08:44 PM   #11253
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Unless you have something to declare, right?
Yes, good point.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #11254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Yes, good point.
Am I right that you only declare goods at FIN-N border crossings if you choose to? (and risk fine if you don't) But who will know if you don't declare? AFAIK, the Swiss always ask you, if you have sth to declare on its border with the EU (obviously only on roads, railways, ports and airports though, not in the nature).

Last edited by Verso; September 5th, 2014 at 08:57 PM.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 09:08 PM   #11255
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Am I right that you only declare goods at FIN-N border crossings if you choose to? (and risk fine if you don't) But who will know if you don't declare? AFAIK, the Swiss always ask you, if you have sth to declare on its border with the EU (obviously only on roads, railways, ports and airports though, not in the nature).
There are random checks on the roads. Never heard of them in the wilderness, though.

Then again, the things most frequently smuggled are alcohol and cigarettes. They require space and it's hardly profitable to carry large amounts of them by foot. Also remember that we're talking about an area with no human habitation in tens of kilometres, sometimes a hundred.
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Last edited by OulaL; September 5th, 2014 at 11:39 PM.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 11:43 PM   #11256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palance View Post
Spotting will not be fined, but crossing it to/from Russia will be.


I found this picture



and blog writter said that it was completely illegal but he took (he came from the opposite side of the continent, he loves these kind of pictures just glancing his blog and... no many chances to take it).
He says that maybe police is registering his IP or so... as a joke
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Old September 5th, 2014, 11:59 PM   #11257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Which do you mean? Lithuania-Poland-Russia-tripoint is very easy to arrive, just 100 metres from the nearest road (from Poland).

Finland-Norway-Russia, mentioned earlier in the thread, is harder - several kilometres from the nearest road (from Norway), and that road itself is pretty remote - 100 km from E6 which is the only connection to anywhere else.

In any case, there is nothing to be fined in either as long as you don't cross the Russian border. Finland-Norway as well as Lithuania-Poland borders can be crossed freely anywhere.

Just notice that Finland has a border zone towards Russia, and that zone begins right next to the tripoint; visiting the border zone requires a separate permit, which must be obtained from the Border Guard in advance. The border zone signs are clearly seen on Skyline's post.

There is, however, a narrow path between the border zone and Norway so that you can freely walk from the tripoint to the rest of Finland. Not that there'd be any point to a mere border spotter in doing so. There's nothing on the Finnish side except a hundred kilometres of wilderness with forests, swamps and lakes.
The current arrangements around the tripoint are rather new. Earlier, it was not legal to approach the point from Finland. But it was legal to walk from Finland to Norway and make the approach from Norway. Nowadays the regulations for the frontier zone have been relieved in several areas, including that tripoint area. (The frontier guard organization got exhausted about writing tens of thousands access permits for tourists every year. Now the most popular areas can be visited freely.)

The walking distance from the closest road in Finland to the tripoint is about 12 kilometers in the wilderness.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 12:03 AM   #11258
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And... Hasn't Russia considered to offer a Visa to enter for a while in their territory. A single document to stay in that area and I am pretty sure that people would pay for it (anyone who go so far just to see a border would want to cross it)
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Old September 6th, 2014, 12:23 AM   #11259
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So Serbian passport holders can freely walk around PL-LT-RUS tripoint...unless it's considered as illegal crossing a border.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 12:29 AM   #11260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
There are random checks on the roads. Never heard of them in the wilderness, though.

Then again, the things most frequently smuggled are alcohol and cigarettes. They require space and it's hardly profitable to carry large amounts of them by foot. Also remember that we're talking about an area with no human habitation in tens of kilometres, sometimes a hundred.
Yes. And the surveillance really is active in the wilderness even if it is invisible. If you carry two cases of beer, 24 cans each, close to the border, you are quite likely to meeting a frontier guard patrol wishing to chat with you for a while. Most probably, anyone hiking in the area close to the border will be observed by the frontier guard.
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