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Old September 6th, 2014, 12:35 AM   #11261
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Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
So Serbian passport holders can freely walk around PL-LT-RUS tripoint...unless it's considered as illegal crossing a border.
Between Poland and Lithuania - yes. Crossing into Russia means a fine of 500 zloty. http://www.panoramio.com/photo/82783276
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Old September 6th, 2014, 03:18 AM   #11262
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Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
So Serbian passport holders can freely walk around PL-LT-RUS tripoint...unless it's considered as illegal crossing a border.
It has nothing to do with that. I can't just walk freely into Croatia just because I don't need a visa to enter it.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 08:26 AM   #11263
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Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
I found this picture



and blog writter said that it was completely illegal but he took
Indeed, this is illegal, because in this case the photographer (at least a hand) is in Russia. And even if he had entered Russia legally (which he probably hadn't done here), that doesn't mean that he could walk within Russia everywhere he'd like. Especially not in the border areas, they require a permit of their own.

In my pictures, neither me nor the photographer are in Russia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
So Serbian passport holders can freely walk around PL-LT-RUS tripoint...unless it's considered as illegal crossing a border.
It is. The nearest legal border crossings to Russia are about 30 km from here, from either side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Between Poland and Lithuania - yes. Crossing into Russia means a fine of 500 zloty. http://www.panoramio.com/photo/82783276
And that's just Poland; Lithuania may give a fine of its own. Let alone Russia itself. Depend, of course, on where you get caught: most tourists visit this site from Poland and never get more than a few steps away of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Nowadays the regulations for the frontier zone have been relieved in several areas, including that tripoint area. (The frontier guard organization got exhausted about writing tens of thousands access permits for tourists every year. Now the most popular areas can be visited freely.)
However here it seems like the best path enters the border zone anyway some 1,5 km northwest of the tripoint. I'm not aware how passable those swamps are on the northern side of the border zone (or do they have duckboard paths as well, even if not shown on the map). Except winter of course.

http://kansalaisen.karttapaikka.fi/k...siirra&lang=fi

Note to others: the thick purple line is the Finnish border, the thin purple line is the outer limit of the border zone. This map doesn't show the Norwegian-Russian border at all, but anyway the tripoint is at the eastern corner.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 12:20 PM   #11264
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They must make tourist area of those places, for sure they can get money
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Old September 6th, 2014, 12:48 PM   #11265
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Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Indeed, this is illegal, because in this case the photographer (at least a hand) is in Russia. And even if he had entered Russia legally (which he probably hadn't done here), that doesn't mean that he could walk within Russia everywhere he'd like. Especially not in the border areas, they require a permit of their own.


In his blog, blogger says that his friend took several tours around the monument so completely illegal.....
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Old September 6th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #11266
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I presume walking around the monument on the cobblestone is tolerated, crossing further into Russia is probably not.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 02:18 PM   #11267
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The Russian border with the EU is well protected. But I still wonder how it is possible that Estonian and Russian border guards are able to straddle into each others countries. A Estonian border guard is abducted by the Russian FSA yesterday apparently on Estonian territory, but taken to Russia.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 02:23 PM   #11268
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It may have happened in the Saatse Boot.

http://goo.gl/maps/Be0Bl
http://goo.gl/maps/lxI0F
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Old September 6th, 2014, 04:14 PM   #11269
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Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
I presume walking around the monument on the cobblestone is tolerated, crossing further into Russia is probably not.
No, because you enter Russia/leave Schengen zone not via an official border post. So walking around it means you illegally crosss a border.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 04:23 PM   #11270
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So, what's the point of this tripoint marking, when it's illegal to walk around it? There should barbed wire to mark the Russian territory.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 05:12 PM   #11271
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Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Indeed, this is illegal, because in this case the photographer (at least a hand) is in Russia. And even if he had entered Russia legally (which he probably hadn't done here), that doesn't mean that he could walk within Russia everywhere he'd like. Especially not in the border areas, they require a permit of their own.

In my pictures, neither me nor the photographer are in Russia.



It is. The nearest legal border crossings to Russia are about 30 km from here, from either side.



And that's just Poland; Lithuania may give a fine of its own. Let alone Russia itself. Depend, of course, on where you get caught: most tourists visit this site from Poland and never get more than a few steps away of it.



However here it seems like the best path enters the border zone anyway some 1,5 km northwest of the tripoint. I'm not aware how passable those swamps are on the northern side of the border zone (or do they have duckboard paths as well, even if not shown on the map). Except winter of course.

http://kansalaisen.karttapaikka.fi/k...siirra&lang=fi

Note to others: the thick purple line is the Finnish border, the thin purple line is the outer limit of the border zone. This map doesn't show the Norwegian-Russian border at all, but anyway the tripoint is at the eastern corner.
The area is rather difficult to walk. That is why visiting the tripoint by hiking is not very popular. People visit it usually in winter, riding snow scooters.

Last edited by MattiG; September 6th, 2014 at 05:44 PM.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 05:16 PM   #11272
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No, because you enter Russia/leave Schengen zone not via an official border post. So walking around it means you illegally crosss a border.
The key word is "tolerated". While it is illegal it doesn't seem like there is someone ready to jump at you and fine you if you walk around the stone.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 05:22 PM   #11273
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Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
So, what's the point of this tripoint marking, when it's illegal to walk around it? There should barbed wire to mark the Russian territory.
Well, it looks nice...

And there actually is a fence on the Russian territory, just a few metres from the actual borderline.

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Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
The key word is "tolerated". While it is illegal it doesn't seem like there is someone ready to jump at you and fine you if you walk around the stone.
A Polish guard riding his ATV actually appeared within 2 minutes of our arrival. Of course it might have been a coincidence. He never said anything and neither did we say anything to him, but I guess that we were under surveillance.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 05:49 PM   #11274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Indeed, this is illegal, because in this case the photographer (at least a hand) is in Russia. And even if he had entered Russia legally (which he probably hadn't done here), that doesn't mean that he could walk within Russia everywhere he'd like. Especially not in the border areas, they require a permit of their own.
How annoying for Russian tourists.

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Originally Posted by Aokromes View Post
They must make tourist area of those places, for sure they can get money
Russians get money by issuing permits to approach.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 05:49 PM   #11275
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Did he at least greet you?
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Old September 6th, 2014, 06:06 PM   #11276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
The Russian border with the EU is well protected. But I still wonder how it is possible that Estonian and Russian border guards are able to straddle into each others countries. A Estonian border guard is abducted by the Russian FSA yesterday apparently on Estonian territory, but taken to Russia.
The incident took place at the disputed area. Estonia and Russia signed an agreement to close the dispute in February, but it still is open in the Russian Duma. The border is not yet clearly marked. Both countries say the person was on their side.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 09:53 PM   #11277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
The Russian border with the EU is well protected. But I still wonder how it is possible that Estonian and Russian border guards are able to straddle into each others countries. A Estonian border guard is abducted by the Russian FSA yesterday apparently on Estonian territory, but taken to Russia.
The whole situation seems very weird - yet it was obviously done by people with security services backing. They wouldn't have been jamming communications if it was just a routine arrest on disputed territory, so it was obviously done for a reason.

Quote:
The key word is "tolerated". While it is illegal it doesn't seem like there is someone ready to jump at you and fine you if you walk around the stone.
I think it's probably based on common sense. No-one is going to bother someone who goes a couple of steps into Russian territory, but going more than a couple metres over the borderline would probably provoke a response.

What's strange is that while they mention the fine clearly with the border with Russia, they don't mention anything such on the PL-SK-UA tripoint. I wonder why?

Having said this, the Polish border guards tend to use common sense in my experience. A friend was caught in the UA side of the border in Bieszczady, although just a few metres - they told him to cross back to PL before the Ukrainians caught him, checked and recorded his identity and told him to go back to Wolosate immediately.

Incidentally, in the Balkans at least, most countries have laws that allow you to obtain a permit to cross the border at a named point, day and time - for instance, if you want to cross at Zeljava, you can apply for a permit that allows you to cross there, and they handle the formalities with the other border guard service.
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Old September 7th, 2014, 01:25 AM   #11278
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
The whole situation seems very weird - yet it was obviously done by people with security services backing. They wouldn't have been jamming communications if it was just a routine arrest on disputed territory, so it was obviously done for a reason.
A bad one, like Venlo
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Old September 7th, 2014, 08:46 AM   #11279
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>> IRQ-KSA |APP| Border Security Project (900km)

Saudis build 550-mile fence to shut out Iraq



Security in Iraq has collapsed so dramatically that Saudi Arabia has ordered the construction of a 550-mile high-tech fence to seal off its troubled northern neighbour.

The huge project to build the barrier, which will be equipped with ultraviolet night-vision cameras, buried sensor cables and thousands of miles of barbed wire, will snake across the vast and remote desert frontier between the countries.
...
...
For many years Saudi plans to improve security on the Iraqi border have been part of a vast multi-billion-pound air, sea and land-based project to protect the whole country, known as Miksa, or Ministry of Interior Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The scheme aims to ring the country with hundreds of radar facilities, coastal sonar detection bases, a telecommunications network and patrols by reconnaissance aircraft.

But the huge centralised project, which one defence contractor who works closely with the Saudi government valued at up to £13 billion, has been slow to get off the ground. Now the kingdom has decided that it cannot afford to wait for Miksa to stave off the threat of violence spilling over from Iraq. Contractors competing for the project will have to promise that they can complete the whole 550 miles of fence within a year.

"Everyone you speak to in Saudi Arabia says it is now desperately urgent," said Anthony Forester-Bennett, from Westminster International, a British company bidding to help build the fence. "They say there's a real danger of very nasty people coming across from Iraq."

Analysts said that even taking into account delays and disputes that usually accompany such valuable military contracts, the fence was on course to be finished by the early summer of 2008. The total cost is expected to reach at least £300 million,

Once complete it will revolutionise border security, where currently the best weapons in the fight against terrorists are 100 sniffer-dog teams who patrol the frontier.

Outwardly it will appear mundane, with two metal barriers running 100 yards apart, lined with barbed wire at the base and top. On the Iraqi side, alarms will notify patrols if an intruder attempts to scale or cut through the fence. Between the two fences will be yet more barbed wire, piled in a tall pyramid.

But its effectiveness will rely on its more sophisticated or hidden counter-measures. Under the baking sand will be buried sensor cables relaying a silent alarm to monitoring posts at regular intervals along the border. At the posts, face-recognition software will process pictures relayed from cameras, which will also be able to operate at night.

"The costs are not going to be about just building the fence but equipping it too," said Mr Obaid. Behind the line of the fence, command and control centres with heliports would provide bases for troops to respond to any alert.

For Saudi Arabia, terrorists and refugees from the conflict are not the only unwelcome intruders.

"We suffer badly from illegal immigration, as well as the smuggling of drugs, weapons and even prostitutes," said Mr Obaid. "It is becoming a major issue."

Despite the details emerging about the fence, Saudi Arabia's military is keeping some aspects under wraps. According to one source, the project is being kept so secret that military officials from Centcom, America's central command responsible for Iraq, have been told they cannot inspect the site on "national security" grounds.

Even spy satellites will not be able to unravel the fence's secrets. The source speculated that the reason for the secrecy might be automated weapons systems attached to the fence that could fire on suspected smugglers or intruders.

"It's being done in true Saudi style," the source said. "State-of-the-art equipment and no expense spared."telegraph

>> IRQ-KSA |APP| Border Security Project (900km)
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Old September 7th, 2014, 12:33 PM   #11280
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How annoying for Russian tourists.
Well, if a Russian tourist gets a Schengen visa (which isn't that hard in the end), they are free to visit the tripoint from Poland or Lithuania... but still not from Russia.

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Did he at least greet you?
If you're asking me about the Polish border guard, no.
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