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Old October 22nd, 2014, 05:12 PM   #11521
alserrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
Before this gets out of control: they were all joking.

A person from Zaragoza (Saragossa), which is in Spain, which is way in the Schengen Area, asks if one can cross the border.
It was me and thx for explanation. I was wondering if they were former fences not erased yet.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 06:47 PM   #11522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
It was me and thx for explanation. I was wondering if they were former fences not erased yet.
What fences? Anyway, of course you can cross them, even before Schengen, otherwise they wouldn't be called border crossings; they would be called border uncrossings.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 05:32 PM   #11523
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yesterday in melilla, esp-morrocco border

source: ultimahora.es
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 05:49 PM   #11524
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^ Apparently it's possible to cross it.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 09:06 PM   #11525
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Schengen sucks. It's good for illegal immigrants and criminals. Every border control gives many catches. long queues at the border is scaremongering of Europhiles. We have a customs-union, so only control of persons suffices. Checked bordes give more secure countries. I hope it will end soon.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 09:08 PM   #11526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VITORIA MAN View Post
yesterday in melilla, esp-morrocco border

source: ultimahora.es
That kind of pictures show the outer borders of Schengen are not secure, especially at the southern countries. The Spanish police is inadequate and Frontex is just funny. That's why we have to leave Schengen as soon as possible.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 09:26 PM   #11527
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That's why we have to leave Schengen as soon as possible.
Feel free to leave. Bye.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 09:31 PM   #11528
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may be you prefer a wall like this one
Muros y Fronteras de Apartheid en Palestina by palestinalibre.org, on Flickr
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Old October 30th, 2014, 09:44 PM   #11529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvMp View Post
That kind of pictures show the outer borders of Schengen are not secure, especially at the southern countries. The Spanish police is inadequate and Frontex is just funny. That's why we have to leave Schengen as soon as possible.

And, Sir/Madam, where is we?
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Old October 30th, 2014, 09:53 PM   #11530
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Westminster, SW1?
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Old October 30th, 2014, 10:15 PM   #11531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvMp View Post
Schengen sucks. It's good for illegal immigrants and criminals. Every border control gives many catches. long queues at the border is scaremongering of Europhiles. We have a customs-union, so only control of persons suffices. Checked bordes give more secure countries. I hope it will end soon.
You really think you could handle todays car/truck traffic with mandatory border checkpoints? Those times are over my friend. We would face endless traffic jams from border to border. No question that Schengen has it flaws, but there are another ways to apprehend criminals these days.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 10:19 PM   #11532
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Westminster, SW1?
SW1 is not in Schengen.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 10:34 PM   #11533
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I know.

I was being silly. (Perhaps not very well, but I'm getting over a cold.)
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Old October 30th, 2014, 11:40 PM   #11534
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what's with stability of Schengen zone, who should be EU afraid of so this should be so imperative? Building walls doesn't make stability, tearing them down does.

Economic migrants is so lame excuse. They can not start work if they just came to Schengen area, they need regular papers and working permits.
Checking papers and visual checks doesn't solve anything, entering Schengen area is not problem, staying there is.
That's not true.
Many economic migrants come for social security. In the Netherlands, even people without valid papers are getting help from the state. It's nearly impossible to get them out of the country. After a few years, they get a permit to stay, especially when they get some children. Social payments are very high in the Netherlands, aspecially for families, up to 2.000 euro/month. So it's very attractive for illegal immigrants to go to the crazy Netherlands. That's easy with a very weak southern borders and after that no borders at all.

Last edited by SvMp; October 30th, 2014 at 11:49 PM.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 11:45 PM   #11535
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The large majority of non-EU economic migrants in the Netherlands came before Schengen even existed, so that argument doesn't fly. The U.S. has tight borders and huge immigration.
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Old October 31st, 2014, 01:57 PM   #11536
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And illegal inmigrants come from countries outside Schengen. Plus, saying that Southern borders are "weak" is kinda funny. The border in Melilla, i.e., is one of the most guarded in the world. And the Mediterranean itself is not particularly porous as a border.
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Old October 31st, 2014, 01:59 PM   #11537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
And illegal inmigrants come from countries outside Schengen. Plus, saying that Southern borders are "weak" is kinda funny. The border in Melilla, i.e., is one of the most guarded in the world. And the Mediterranean itself is not particularly porous as a border.
Tell this to the Mare Nostrum Italian mission, which saved 150 thousand illegal immigrants from the Mediterranean waters last year.

EDIT: http://www.marina.difesa.it/EN/opera...reNostrum.aspx (English)
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Old October 31st, 2014, 03:20 PM   #11538
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But if he means that it isn't as porous because of the large number of immigrants dying before reaching shore, then he has a point, how gruesome that point may be...
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Old October 31st, 2014, 03:30 PM   #11539
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According to the weekly magazine "L'Espresso", between 2000 and 2013 23 thousand immigrants died trying to reach European borders, by sea or land. It's more or less 1600 per year.
8 thousand of them (600 per year) died between Africa and Sicily.

600/150.000 = 0.4% of casualties.
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Old October 31st, 2014, 03:32 PM   #11540
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I don't know about other EU nations, but I have been told that the Dutch are sending in ships to help the Italians patroling the area. We shouldn't be having these high death figures on our outside borders when all that these people want is to seek a better life...
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