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Old November 17th, 2014, 06:22 PM   #11681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
How about the Lille area?
That's another one. Mouscron (Walloon area), Menen (Flanders) and more places all form part of the Lille Metropolitan Area.

Take a look at this, spin around a little and see how freaky this border line actually is. (Menen, Belgium - Halluin, France)
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Old November 17th, 2014, 06:23 PM   #11682
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Trieste (Italy) and Koper (Slovenia) actually form a continuos urbanized area, but I don't know if many people commute between the two.
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Old November 17th, 2014, 07:01 PM   #11683
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Border between The Netherlands / Belgium (10-A) South-Limburg.

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Old November 17th, 2014, 07:37 PM   #11684
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Why is it "half-fenced"?
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Old November 17th, 2014, 08:00 PM   #11685
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Actually, that's a question - what border fences still exist in Europe? I can think of - GIB/E, LT-RU, LT-BY. Any others? (I'm not talking about internal fences, but rather ones within close proximity of the border).
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Old November 17th, 2014, 08:17 PM   #11686
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It's likely a pasture that happens to have a fence at the border. I doubt if the Dutch-Belgian border has ever been fenced off entirely, except for the 'Wire of Death' during World War I. Apparently there haven't been border checks between both countries since 1944.
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Old November 17th, 2014, 08:23 PM   #11687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Also, do countries keep traffic counts at intra-Schengen borders?
Germans do, for instance on Autobahn and Bundesstraße (AADT 2010 / heavy traffic 2010; source):

Top Ten:
1. A 8 BG Bad Reichenhall (D/A) 45500 / 6871 (15,1%)
2. A 93 BG Kiefersfelden (D/A) 44000 / 7172 (16,3%)
3. A 4 GÜ Vetschau (NL/D) 33400 / 6379 (19,1%)
4. A 40 BG Straelen (NL/D) 31000 / 9517 (30,7%)
5. A 3 GÜ Elten-Autobahn (NL/D) 30900 / 4326 (14%)
6. B 28 Kehl Europabrücke (F/D) 29900 / 1615 (5,4%)
7. A 5 BG Kleinhüningen (D/CH) 29800 / 2414 (8,1%)
8. B 304 BG Freilassing (D/A) 29400 / 1499 (5,1%)
9. A 64 BG Sauertalbrücke (L/D) 29200 / 4322 (14,8%)
10. A 44 BG Lichtenbusch (B/D) 26200 / 6209 (23,7%)


Total list (clockwise):

Denmark:
B 5 BG Süderlügum (DK/D) – Süderlügum (L 301) 5800 / 215 (3,7%)
A 7 GÜ Ellund (1) – AS Flensburg/Harrislee (2) 16300 / 4254 (26,1%)
B 207 Fehmarn-Puttgarden-Fährhafenstraße (K 49) – AS Fehmarn-Burg (L 209) 4600 / 810 (17,6%)

Poland:

B 110 BG Polen, Garz/Swinoujscie (DK 93) – OD Zirchow, Hauptstraße (L 266) 1900 / 48 (2,5%)
B 104 Linken, vor der BG Polen (B 113) – OA Löcknitz 5000 / 565 (11,3%)
A 11 BG Pomellen (PL/D) (1) – AS Penkum (3) 8600 / 1660 (19,3%)
B 2 BG Mescherin (PL/D) – Mescherin (B 113) 3200 / 29 (0,9%)
B 113 BG Polen, Mescherin/Gryfino (DW 120) – westl. Mescherin (B 2) 2900 / 81 (2,8%)
B 166 BG Polen, Schwedt/Krajnik Dolny (DK 26) – OD Schwedt/Oder 7100 / 525 (7,4%)
B 158A BG Polen, Altglietzen/Osinow Dolny (DW 124) – süd-westl. Altglietzen, Ri. Gabow (B 158/L 28) 9000 / 171 (1,9%)
B 1 BG Küstrin-Kietz (D/PL) – Manschnow (B 112 / L 33) 4200 / 59 (1,4%)
B 5 Frankfurt (Oder) - / -
A 12 AS Frankfurt (Oder)-Mitte (9) – BG Frankfurt (Oder) (D/PL) (10) 19300 / 8762 (45,4%)
B 97 Schenkendöbern-Klein Gastrose (B 112) – BG Schenkendöbern (D/PL) 3700 / 810 (21,9%)
A 15 AS Bademeusel (8) – BG Forst (D/PL) (9) 7100 / 2322 (32,7%)
A 4 AS Görlitz (94) – GÜ Görlitz (95) 12500 / 3763 (30,1%)

Czech Republic:
B 172 BG Tschechien, Bad Schandau/Decin (silnice 62) – OD Bad Schandau, Kirnitzschtalstraße (S 165) 2400 / 17 (0,7%)
A 17 AS Bad Gottleuba (8) – BG Breitenau (D/CZ) 10000 / 4320 (43,2%)
B 170 BG Tschechien, Altenberg/ Cínovec (silnice 8) – OD Altenberg, Geisingstraße (S 178) 1800 / 13 (0,7%)
B 174 BG Tschechien, Marienberg/Chomutov (silnice 7) – OD Reitzenhain, Ernst-Thälmann-Straße (S 218) 4700 / 733 (15,6%)
B 95 Oberwiesenthal-Tellerhäuserstraße (L 271) – BG Oberwiesenthal (D/CZ) 1700 / 46 (2,7%)
B 92 Bad Brambach-Hohendorf (K 7845) – BG Bad Brambach (D/CZ) 2200 / 297 (13,5%)
B 303 BG Tschechien (silnice 6) – AS Schirnding-Nord (St 2178) 4900 / 1049 (21,4%)
B 299 BG Waldsassen (CZ/D) – Waldsassen-Münchenreuth (L 2178) 4700 / 259 (5,5%)
A 6 AS Waidhaus (76) – BG Tschechien 11600 / 4872 (42%)
B 20 Furth im Wald, Vollmauerstraße – BG Tschechien (silnice 26) 9900 / 1218 (12,3%)
B 11 Bayerisch Eisenstein, Regenhütte (L 2137) – Bayrisch Eisenstein, BG Tschechien (silnice 27) 3400 / 126 (3,7%)
B 12 Mauth (St 2130) – BG Tschechien (silnice 4) 4200 / 651 (15,5%)

Austria:
B 388 nördl. Wegscheid, Ri. Lacken (St 2130) – BG Österreich (L 38) 1800 / 122 (6,8%)
B 512 AS Neuhaus am Inn, Sulzbacher Straße (St 2110) – BG Österreich Neuhaus/Schärding (L 137) 8600 / 774 (9%)
A 3 AS Pocking (118) – GÜ Suben (119) 23900 / 6979 (29,2%)
B 12 AS B12 zur BG Österreich – BG Österreich (L 148) 9600 / 2400 (25%)
B 304 AS Freilassing-Ost, Salzburger Straße (B 20 / St 2104) – BG Österreich, Freilassing (L 155) 29400 / 1499 (5,1%)
B 21 Bad Reichenhall – Salzburg 11200 / 224 (2%)
A 8 AS Bad Reichenhall (115) – BG Bad Reichenhall (D/A) (116) 45500 / 6871 (15,1%)
B 305 Unterau, Auer Straße (B 319) – BG Österreich, Berchtesgaden/Salzburg (L 160) 8000 / 240 (3%)
B 21 BG Österreich, Schneizlreuth, Melleck (L 178) – Schneizlreuth (B 305) 11200 / 1019 (9,1%)
B 307 OD Schleching – BG Österreich, Kössen (L 176) 2200 / 57 (2,6%)
A 93 AS Kiefersfelden (60) – BG Kiefersfelden (D/A) (61) 44000 / 7172 (16,3%)
B 307 BG Österreich, westl. Sylvenstein (L 181) – OD Kreuth 3500 / 98 (2,8%)
B 2 AS Mittenwald-Süd (L 2042) – BG Scharnitz (D/A) 8100 / 235 (2,9%)
B 23 östl. Grainau, Loisachstraße (St 2061) – BG Österreich, Griesen (L 187) 5300 / 196 (3,7%)
B 17 Füssen, BG Österreich – südl. Schwangau (B 16) 6400 / 224 (3,5%)
A 7 AS Füssen (139) – BG Österreich 13800 / 773 (5,6%)
B 309 OE Pfronten, Panoramaweg – BG Österreich, Pfronten/Schönbichl (L 69) 4000 / 128 (3,2%)
B 308 nördl. Oberjoch (B 310) – BG Österreich, Oberjoch/Schattwald (L 199) 4900 / 98 (2%)
B 19 BG Österreich, Kleinwalsertal (L 201) – Oberstdorf, Kreisverkehr (OA 4) 8200 / 303 (3,7%)
A 96 BG Lindau (A/D) (1) – AS Lindau (2) 25900 / 3781 (14,6%)
B 12 Lindau, BG Österreich (L 190) – Lindau, Autobahnzubringer A 96 19800 / 297 (1,5%)

Switzerland:
B 33 Konstanz Brücke Nord – BG (Schweiz) 15400 / 785 (5,1%)
B 34 Grenze Schweiz – AS Gottmadingen (A 81) 14800 / 1184 (8%)
B 27 Neuhaus am Randen – Blumberg (B 314) 3600 / 324 (9%)
B 315 Stühlingen, Bundesstraße (B 314) – BG Schweiz (Kantonstrasse 14) 2700 / 103 (3,8%)
B 34 Klettgau (K 6570) – Erzingen, Schweiz 4500 / 99 (2,2%)
B 27 Jestetten (K 6582) – Grenze Schweiz 9400 / 244 (2,6%)
B 27 Grenze Schweiz – Lottstetten (L 165A) 7700 / 570 (7,4%)
B 34 Waldshut-Tiengen, zum Zoll – Grenze Schweiz 11300 / 475 (4,2%)
B 518 Bad Säckingen Zoll, BG Schweiz – OD Bad Säckingen, Basler Straße (B 34) 11700 / 293 (2,5%)
A 861 Rheinfelden - / -
B 34 Zoll Grenzach-Horn – Wyhlen (K 6332) 10100 / 212 (2,1%)
B 317 BG Schweiz, Lörrach-Stetten, Lörracherstrasse (Zoll) – Lörrach, Tunninger Straße (L 141) 17600 / 141 (0,8%)
B 317 AS Weil am Rhein, Nonnenholzstraße (K 6330) – BG Schweiz, Zoll Weil am Rhein-Ost, Weilstrasse (K 6330) 8600 / 103 (1,2%)
B 3 KVP Weil am Rhein (B 317) – BG Weil-Otterbach (D/CH) 13000 / 169 (1,3%)
A 5 AS Weil am Rhein/Hüningen (69) – A5 Zoll Kleinhüningen (70) 29800 / 2414 (8,1%)
B 317 BG Schweiz, Hitalingerstrasse – Zoll Kleinhüningen 12300 / 308 (2,5%)

France:
B 532 BG Frankreich Weil am Rhein/Huningue, Palmrheinbrücke (D 105) – AS Weil am Rhein/Hüningen (A 5) 16400 / 541 (3,3%)
A 5 AD Neuenburg (A 5) – GÜ Ottmarsheim 13300 / 3551 (26,7%)
B 378 BG Frankreich, Neuenburg/Chalampé (D 39) – AS Müllheim/Neuenburg (A 5) 9200 / 331 (3,6%)
B 31 Breisach, Grenze Frankreich (D 415) – Breisach, Kreisverkehr (L 114) 14000 / 588 (4,2%)
B 28 Kehl Europabrücke Grenze Frankreich – Kehl (B 36) 29900 / 1615 (5,4%)
B 500 westl. Iffezheim, am Rheinkraftwerk (K 3758) – BG Frankreich, Iffezheim/Roppenheim (D 4) 11800 / 2171 (18,4%)
B 9 Neulauterburg (L 554) – BG Neulauterburg (D/F) 9300 / 2567 (27,6%)
B 38 Bundesgrenze Frankreich (D 264) – Schweigen-Rechtenbach (L 546) 5300 / 191 (3,6%)
B 424 süd-östl. Hornbach, Ri. Flughafen Zweibrücken (L 700) – BG Frankreich, Hornbach/Schweyen (D 35A) 3300 / 337 (10,2%)
B 423 BG Frankreich, Mandelbachtal/Sarreguemines (D 974) – nördl. Habkirchen (L 105) 3900 / 273 (7%)
B 51 Kleinblittersdorf-Rilchingen-Hanweiler (L 106) – BG Kleinblittersdorf-Rilchingen-Hanweiler (D/F) 10600 / 138 (1,3%)
B 406 BG Frankreich, Saarbrücken/Grosbliederstroff (N 61) – OD Saarbrücken, Kreisverkehr Friedrich-Ebert-Straße (L 109) 6900 / 90 (1,3%)
A 6 GÜ Goldene Bremm (1) – AS SB-Goldene Bremm (2) 16400 / 2345 (14,3%)
B 41 BG Saarbrücken (F/D) – Saarbrücken-Dr.-Vogeler-Straße (L 273) 11400 / 342 (3%)
B 269 Überherrn-Felsberg/Wallerfangen-Ittersdorf (L 351) – BG Villing (D/F) 2000 / 168 (8,4%)
B 405 westl. Ittersdorf, Ri. Leidingen (L 354) – BG Frankreich, Wallerfangen/Bedersdorf/Schreckling (D 918) 2300 / 189 (8,2%)
B 419 BG Frankreich, Perl/Apach – Perl, Kreisverkehr Am Dreiländereck (B 407) 7900 / 237 (3%)

Luxembourg:
B 407 BG Luxemburg, Perl/Schengen (N 10) – westl. Perl, Kreisverkehr Am Dreiländereck (B 419) 10000 / 230 (2,3%)
A 8 BG Perl (L/D) (1) – AS Perl (2) 18700 / 2525 (13,5%)
B 406 nördl. Nenning, Kreisverkehr Bübinger Straße (B 419) – BG Luxemburg, Perl-Nenning/Remich (N 2) 10300 / 371 (3,6%)
B 49 BG Wasserbillig (L/D) – Langsur-Wasserbilligerbrück (B 418) 14500 / 508 (3,5%)
A 64 BG Sauertalbrücke (L/D) (1) – AS Trier (3) 29200 / 4322 (14,8%)
B 257 AS Echternacherbrück (B 418 / L 1) – BG Echternach (D/L) 7500 / 533 (7,1%)
B 50 BG Roth (Our) (L/D) – Roth an der Our (L 6) 2100 / 111 (5,3%)
B 410 Dasburg - / [color=red]-

Belgium:
A 60 BG Steinebrück (B/D) – AS Winterspelt (2) 6700 / 1293 (19,3%)
A 44 BG Lichtenbusch (B/D) (1) – AS Aachen-Lichtenbusch (2) 26200 / 6209 (23,7%)
B 57 Aachen-Luxemburger Ring (L 260) – BG Hauset (D/B) 8500 / 170 (2%)
B 264 BG Kelmis (B/D) – Aachen-Brüsseler Ring (L 260) 9700 / 155 (1,6%)

The Netherlands:
B 1 BG Vaals (NL/D) – Aachen-Pariser Ring (L 260) 14000 / 252 (1,8%)
A 4 GÜ Vetschau (1) – AS Aachen-Laurensberg (2) 33400 / 6379 (19,1%)
B 56 BG Sittard (NL/D) – Selfkant-Süsterseel (K 1) 4800 / 58 (1,2%)
A 52 BG Elmpt (NL/D) (1) – AS Elmpt (2) 12500 / 1575 (12,6%)
A 61 BG Schwanenhaus (NL/D) (1) – AS Kaldenkirchen (2) 21900 / 4709 (21,5%)
A 40 BG Straelen (NL/D) (1) – AS Straelen (2) 31000 / 9517 (30,7%)
B 58 BG Straelen (NL/D) – Straelen-Brüxken (K 24) 3900 / 534 (13,7%)
A 57 BG Goch (NL/D) (1) – AS Kleve (2) 13200 / 2521 (19,1%)
B 9 BG Kranenburg (Niederrhein) (NL/D) – Kranenburg (Niederrhein)-Wyler (K 44) 9000 / 333 (3,7%)
B 8 BG Emmerich (NL/D) – Emmerich-Elten (L 472) 2100 / 63 (3%)
A 3 GÜ Elten-Autobahn (1) – AS Elten (2) 30900 / 4326 (14%)
B 220 BG Emmerich (NL/D) – AS Emmerich (A 3) 12400 / 1141 (9,2%)
B 54 BG Gronau (NL/D) – AS Gronau (Westfalen)-West (B 70 / L 572 / K 25) 10700 / 1455 (13,6%)
A 30 BG Bad Bentheim (NL/D) – AS Gildehaus (2) 19200 / 6240 (32,5%)
B 213 BG Nordhorn (NL/D) – AS Nordhorn-Bentheimer Straße (B 403) 11100 / 566 (5,1%)
B 403 Coevoerden - / -
B 408 Rütenbrock - / -
A 280 BG Bunde-West (NL/D) – AS Bunde-West (2) 10400 /
1435 (13,8%)
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Old November 17th, 2014, 08:35 PM   #11688
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I think the busiest border crossing in Europe is Hazeldonk-Meer (Netherlands-Belgium), part of A16/E19. The average traffic is 67,000 vehicles per day on workdays, but spikes up to 80,000 vehicles on Fridays.

There are some border crossings in Europe that have very high summer holiday peak traffic, but lower annual average traffic counts.

Other high-volume border crossings may be A9-AP-7 (France-Spain) and A2-A9 (Switzerland - Italy).
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Old November 17th, 2014, 08:36 PM   #11689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Is there a place in Europe where you've got a major city very close to a border and areas on the other side of the border that could be considered suburbs of that city, so that you'd have substantial daily commuting? I mean, I know where Basel and Geneva and Aachen and Maastricht are, but are they large enough to generate the sort of traffic I'm talking about?

Also, do countries keep traffic counts at intra-Schengen borders?
Going back to Michael's question; this one deserves special attention. Basel, Switzerland with suberbs stretching into France (St Louis) and Germany (Weil am Rhein.)



Basel has masses of both German and French commuters crossing that border daily.




And very recently, after extending a tram line from the public transport company of Basel into Weil am Rhein, Germany they have done the first test of a Basel tram onto German soil:





And Switzerland is not even in the EU....
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Old November 17th, 2014, 11:50 PM   #11690
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Quote:
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Actually, that's a question - what border fences still exist in Europe? I can think of - GIB/E, LT-RU, LT-BY. Any others? (I'm not talking about internal fences, but rather ones within close proximity of the border).
Spain-Morocco in Ceuta and in Melilla.
Can they be the strongest EU fences?
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Old November 17th, 2014, 11:52 PM   #11691
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The strongest fences are in our minds...
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Old November 18th, 2014, 12:01 AM   #11692
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Quote:
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Local bus Haparanda-Tornio Sweden-Finland. Not considered major cities, but this bus could be used by possible commuters.
Haparanda-Tornio as seen here are not separate destinations, but only one; the two cities have a joint bus station. It is actually located in Haparanda, only 100 metres from the border line and Tornio centre. The other end of this line is Kemi (where your picture apparently is taken).

Also long distance buses going to and from western (Finnish) Lapland stop in Haparanda-Tornio en route; in the timetables, however, they use Finnish time.

I wonder if the location of the bus station causes problems to conscripts living north of Tornio and travelling by bus to their garnison locations - after all they're not supposed to leave the country during service...
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:25 AM   #11693
eeee.
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Border between Ischgl (A) and Samnaun (CH)
https://www.google.ch/maps/@46.97518...6739,13z?hl=de


Grenze Ch - Dtl - Ischgl by Novalis Digit, on Flickr
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:44 AM   #11694
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Divided cities and villages:

Laufenburg CH/D

Laufenburg by FranioM, on Flickr

Rheinfelden CH/D

Rheinfelden by H3MR0N, on Flickr

Rheinfelden, Schweiz by BGP5, on Flickr

Lucelle CH/F

Lucelle © French Moments 17 by French Moments, on Flickr

Goumois CH/F


St-Gingolph CH/F

Saint-Gingolph by Elysium 2010, on Flickr

St-Gingolph (France/Switzerland) - Border Crossing by Danielzolli, on Flickr

1900: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-23fj1R0ZFI...0/DSCF0054.JPG


Ponte Tresa CH/I

Ponte Tresa by Boffa Andrea, on Flickr
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Old November 18th, 2014, 11:47 AM   #11695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Haparanda-Tornio as seen here are not separate destinations, but only one; the two cities have a joint bus station. It is actually located in Haparanda, only 100 metres from the border line and Tornio centre. The other end of this line is Kemi (where your picture apparently is taken).

Also long distance buses going to and from western (Finnish) Lapland stop in Haparanda-Tornio en route; in the timetables, however, they use Finnish time.

I wonder if the location of the bus station causes problems to conscripts living north of Tornio and travelling by bus to their garnison locations - after all they're not supposed to leave the country during service...
Haparanda-Tornio is one of few twin border cities with different timezones. In this case CST & EET.

Terespol-Brest- is also CST & EET Narva-Ivangorod is EET & Moscow time, but those border towns are not intertwined in the way that Haparanda-Tornio are.



The new Travel Center in Haparanda, Sweden

Passengers are still confused about the new Travel Centre
The Tornio bus station moved to the Common Travel Centre on the Swedish side this summer. This has caused problems for the passengers, many things are still unclear, for instance, can the finnish passengers be given adequate services in their language ?

Many people are confused by the fact that the Travel Centre timetables are only in Swedish CET time.

Confusion is also caused by the fact that all the buses do not run through the Travel Centre.

Haparanda is the easternmost swedish city. About 35-40% of the inhabitants are born outside Sweden, most of them in Finland.

The majority of people older than 50 years speaks finnish (Meänkieli), while the younger ones tend to speak swedish. Most families are bilingual.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 11:52 AM   #11696
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I have crossed that border once in the middle of the night. Lots of police and customs activity there...
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Old November 18th, 2014, 11:55 AM   #11697
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I guess also Geneva and Konstanz have considerable cross-border commuter traffic.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 12:24 PM   #11698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I have crossed that border once in the middle of the night. Lots of police and customs activity there...
Custom? Between Sweden and Finland, both EU members? Are you sure you don't confuse with the Swedish-Norweigian or the Finnish-Norweigian border?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 12:35 PM   #11699
Road_UK
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I know what I saw. But there might have been an incident when I was passing. And it is perfectly normal that they have customs checks even within Schengen borders. Particularly the French, Germans and Swedish actively carry out random checks alongside their borders and even inland. Not all items are freely movable in the EU (tobacco, alcohol, fuel in jerry cans has limits and drugs are contraband. )

French random customs checks



German randon customs checks



UK customs, Port of Dover



Swedish customs Port of Helsingborg (ferry with Denmark)


Last edited by Road_UK; November 18th, 2014 at 12:59 PM. Reason: photo's added
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Old November 18th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #11700
eeee.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I guess also Geneva and Konstanz have considerable cross-border commuter traffic.
Cross-border commuters per country (Q2 2014):
http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...nzgaenger.html

France: 150'353
Italy: 69'318
Germany: 58'533
Austria: 8'309


Some traffic count stations - average on workdays (2013):
http://www.portal-stat.admin.ch/sasvz/files/de/04.xml

TG, Kreuzlingen border: 18'942 motor vehicles

GE, Bardonnex border on A1: 53'872
GE, Thônex Route Blanche border: 19'312
GE, Route St-Julien border: 16'651
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