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Old January 13th, 2015, 07:08 PM   #12181
Penn's Woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Sometimes American laws and traditions really amaze me.
It's usually the pioneer country in new technologies (most things nowadays are invented there), but it still teachs creationism in some schools. In Italy, that is aroud 90% Catholic, nobody would ever think to teach creationism at school. In some US states, consensual homosexuality and ****\oral sex in heterosexual couples were illegal until as late as 2003 (and now, many protests against Putin...)
They have ridiculously strict alchool laws that forbide anyone under 21, not only to drink, but also to enter some places where alchool is served. It's also illegal to drink in the street, even without creating any nuisance. They have "anti-loitering" laws, that allow to arrest someone just for standing suispiciously in a place. But nobody can be prohibitted to buy freely as many firearms as he likes and carry around wherever he wants. Maybe they feel more socially dangerous someone with a can of beer rather than a machine gun.
But maybe Americans are amazed by some European things that we find normal.
Some of what you say isn't true (particularly about guns*), but you have a point. On the other hand...see my current sig. (I'm amazed at European limitations on free speech.)

*It's perfectly Constitutional to have waiting periods, to prohibit carrying in certain places. The idea that city streets are like something out of a western is a European myth. I haven't touched a gun in 35 years, and haven't seen one since the night I locked myself out of my apartment and happened to witness an arrest in my block. And in that case the gun was in the hand of a police officer. Much of this country legalized same-sex marriage before, for example, France did.... 36 states out of 50 as of last week, I believe.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 07:33 PM   #12182
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ID is enough, because we're both in EU (but even before it was enough for a long time, maybe even right from independence, I'm not sure).
Today Serbs can enter Macedonia only with ID.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 07:35 PM   #12183
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How about Montenegro?
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Old January 13th, 2015, 08:54 PM   #12184
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It's the same.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #12185
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Bosnia and Herzegovina too, and vice versa.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 10:15 PM   #12186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
Today Serbs can enter Macedonia only with ID.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
How about Montenegro?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
It's the same.
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Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
Bosnia and Herzegovina too, and vice versa.
Balkan Union. This uniformity...
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old January 13th, 2015, 10:16 PM   #12187
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I remember the times when we had to collect documents and all sort of papers for vizas in order to enter EU countries .That was something completely unnecessarily and stupid.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 10:57 PM   #12188
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Bulgarians (and I guess all of EU) can enter Macedonia and Serbia with ID cards.
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Old January 14th, 2015, 01:11 AM   #12189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Some of what you say isn't true (particularly about guns*), but you have a point. On the other hand...see my current sig. (I'm amazed at European limitations on free speech.)

*It's perfectly Constitutional to have waiting periods, to prohibit carrying in certain places. The idea that city streets are like something out of a western is a European myth. I haven't touched a gun in 35 years, and haven't seen one since the night I locked myself out of my apartment and happened to witness an arrest in my block. And in that case the gun was in the hand of a police officer. Much of this country legalized same-sex marriage before, for example, France did.... 36 states out of 50 as of last week, I believe.
Ah, but both are ****ed up - Americans are crazy about the booze (Canadians... even worse) but okay on guns, Europeans are psychotic about firearms (Canadian also) but okay on booze... so Canada worst of both worlds (like gasoline price too... European gas price, American gas mileage )
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Old January 14th, 2015, 01:18 AM   #12190
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I've surfed on Andorran information.

Quite easy. They do not require any special documentation. Even if they are out of Schengen area they say that it is enough to have documentation to entry in Spain or France (therefore, to entry inside Schengen area)

Link in English

http://www.andorralavella.ad/en/node/635/visa
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Old January 14th, 2015, 01:21 AM   #12191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aubergine72 View Post
Bulgarians (and I guess all of EU) can enter Macedonia and Serbia with ID cards.
Yes, we EU citizens can enter all Balkan countries except Kosovo with ID only.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 14th, 2015, 01:45 AM   #12192
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Actually Kosovo too since may 2013.
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Old January 14th, 2015, 02:08 AM   #12193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
Ah, but both are ****ed up - Americans are crazy about the booze (Canadians... even worse) but okay on guns, Europeans are psychotic about firearms (Canadian also) but okay on booze... so Canada worst of both worlds (like gasoline price too... European gas price, American gas mileage )
Regarding alcohol, from my experience I've come to the conclusion that, generally, Americans and Europeans have a different attitude towards booze. Whereas in Europe, particularly in countries such as France, Spain or Italy, alcoholic beverages, especially wine and beer, are seen as an ordinary good you buy in the supermarket and drink above all during meals, in the USA alcohol is most times seen as something "bad" that causes unacceptable conducts, car accidents and alcoholism.

In Europe it's quite normal to see parents at home or in restaurants letting their teenage children taste wine, beer or champagne in order to introduce them to a healthy consumption of alcoholic beverages (better than starting drinking cheap vodka on the street at night). In most European countries the legal age for drinking alcohol is 18, but restaurant and bar owners usually tolerate this kind of situations. I can't imagine the same situation happening in an American restaurant. I don't know, maybe we are too permissive in Europe.

Going back to topic, Andorra is like heaven for shopping. The main street of the capital city is full of shopping malls (and banks ), you can buy anything you want cheaper than in Spain or in France (products usually show prices of the products in the three countries), especially electronic goods, as taxes are really low. But if Spanish or French authorities catch you at the border with products exceeding a given amount (that now I don't remember), you have to pay the taxes you have avoided buying the product in Andorra.

However only one car out of ten are usually stopped by the police, at least at the Spanish border, so most people can get away with it, although it's a little risky.
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Old January 14th, 2015, 02:57 AM   #12194
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Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
In Europe it's quite normal to see parents at home or in restaurants letting their teenage children taste wine, beer or champagne in order to introduce them to a healthy consumption of alcoholic beverages (better than starting drinking cheap vodka on the street at night). In most European countries the legal age for drinking alcohol is 18, but restaurant and bar owners usually tolerate this kind of situations. I can't imagine the same situation happening in an American restaurant. I don't know, maybe we are too permissive in Europe.
My parents would give us a little bit of beer with lunch on Saturday, a little wine with Sunday dinner, a little bit of whatever the grown-ups were drinking at family celebrations (which is illegal, of course, but I can't see the police breaking into houses to interfere with how people raise their own children)...and that worked exactly the way you suggest: when we got to the age where for our friends, alcohol had the appeal of the forbidden, it wasn't a big deal for us.

That said, I didn't realize you had drinking ages in Europe at all. It used to be 18 here, actually (well, in some states). What happened was an organization called Mothers Against Drunk Driving convinced enough of Congress that raising the drinking age would solve drunk driving (which is of course absurd) that Congress passed legislation withholding Federal highway funding from any state where the drinking age was less than 21...so they all fell into line.
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Old January 14th, 2015, 05:38 AM   #12195
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Brazil and Uruguay





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BRAZIL !

Londres 2017 Paris 2017
Pireneus, França 2017

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Old January 14th, 2015, 06:24 AM   #12196
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The famous singer Montserrat Caballe recently was in a big legal trouble for declaring Andorra her residence while in reality she was found to live in Barcelona thus not paying taxes in Spain.
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Old January 14th, 2015, 06:50 AM   #12197
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Brazil and Uruguay





Wait, what? A border? On the Borders thread?!
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Old January 14th, 2015, 08:55 AM   #12198
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Yes, we EU citizens can enter all Balkan countries except Kosovo with ID only.
It is even recommended to put forward only ID while visiting Kosovo due to stamp dispute between Kosovo and Serbia.
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Old January 14th, 2015, 09:08 AM   #12199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Sometimes American laws and traditions really amaze me.
It's usually the pioneer country in new technologies (most things nowadays are invented there), but it still teachs creationism in some schools. In Italy, that is aroud 90% Catholic, nobody would ever think to teach creationism at school.
Catholics believe that evolution is consistent with Scripture and that science and religion are not at odds with each other. Certain protestant denominations, specially in the U.S., believe in a strict and literal reading of the Bible., and those are the ones that push for the teaching of creationsim.

Quote:
In some US states, consensual homosexuality and ****\oral sex in heterosexual couples were illegal until as late as 2003 (and now, many protests against Putin...)
In some states uunatural and lascivious acts, adultery and cohabitation are still illegal, but those laws are no longer enforced.

Quote:
They have ridiculously strict alchool laws that forbide anyone under 21, not only to drink, but also to enter some places where alchool is served. It's also illegal to drink in the street, even without creating any nuisance.
There was alcohol prohibition here in the 1920's and the current high drinking age gives alcohol the "allure of the forbidden fruit" to teenagers. Ironically, in Cuba, where there is a totalitarian and highly oppressive and repressive communist diciatorship, the only freedoms allowed are with respect to alcohol consumption and sale (probably to keep people's brains numb and away from thinking about how to free themselves from the Castro family's grip).

Quote:
They have "anti-loitering" laws, that allow to arrest someone just for standing suispiciously in a place.
I don't know about other states, but in Florida, the loitering law is strict and requires evidence that a crime was committed or is about to be committed.

Quote:
But nobody can be prohibitted to buy freely as many firearms as he likes and carry around wherever he wants.
It's not like that. Convicted felons, people charged with crimes, mental incompetents, drug addicts, illegal aliens, domestic abusers, etc. are not allowed to buy or own firearms. Decent people can freely buy firearms though if they buy 5 handguns within 5 days, the shop has to report it to the government. Dealer sales are subject to a background check but private sales are not in most states. Each state has a list of places where you cannot carry firearms. Almost all state issue permits to carry concealed firearms and most states allow open carrying, but all have restrictions on where the guns can be carried. Americans highly value their rights under the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, something that most European countries don't have. And, the Americans gun-purchasing habits has a direct and positive effect in the economy of the Brescia area in Italy
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Old January 14th, 2015, 09:21 AM   #12200
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My parents would give us a little bit of beer with lunch on Saturday, a little wine with Sunday dinner, a little bit of whatever the grown-ups were drinking at family celebrations (which is illegal, of course, but I can't see the police breaking into houses to interfere with how people raise their own children)...and that worked exactly the way you suggest: when we got to the age where for our friends, alcohol had the appeal of the forbidden, it wasn't a big deal for us.
That's how my parents did and I never found alcohol alluring or "cool".
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