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Old January 18th, 2015, 10:33 AM   #12321
Singidunum
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Of course they disappeared in Switzerland, it's a legal obligation not a choice. Now there is even a tram going between Switzerland and Germany and recently there was a row over pizza deliveries from Germany to Switzerland.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 10:50 AM   #12322
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Have you ever crossed a Swiss border? I did last year. It's still the same procedure like pre-Schengen!
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Old January 18th, 2015, 11:05 AM   #12323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Border officials in EU countries may ask for other supporting documents such as an invitation letter, proof of lodging, return or round-trip ticket.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...s/index_en.htm
but it also says: " For the precise requirements contact the local consular services of the EU country in question."

so to be sure you should check if you are required to have some special documents. as Croat citizen, afaik I didn't have to get them. (it happened in 2009).

dunno, i really think it is the easiest thing to do to say that you were going to visit some widely known place, instead of some unusual.

interesting, the same trip, we have finally reached Graz airport. Ryanair's bagagge drop-off desk - employee asked me for a visa there.after several question marks above my head she made few phone calls, checked some list and let me go.

oh, and i have also enteres EU before I was EU citizen with documents that have been expiring on that day (both passport and ID). i have a stamp in passport as a prove.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 11:17 AM   #12324
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According to this news, in my region on the E-07 border the number of random checks remains the same after France attacks but with a greater number of officers.

http://www.elperiodicodearagon.com/n...nc_998455.html
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Old January 18th, 2015, 11:42 AM   #12325
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Quote:
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So basically, you support a police state .
If what you call a police state means that regular people are free to live the life they want and have whatever opinion + criminals are peeing in their pants when seeing the police, then yes - I do.
When I was a teenager, I spent 2 years in Singapore, where I was not afraid of leaving the door open or my bike free of any chain.
When I came back to France, I've got beaten by 3 "cité" guys just because ... I had no cigarettes. The police took me for a ride, pretending to look for them; and I heard from some stupid French people "those are people who have no point of reference, their parents are immigrants, you must understand them." And so what? Both my parents are also immigrants, from 2 different countries. Does that make me beat people on the streets for whatever reason?

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The fact is that the efficiency of these controls is close to zero, contrary to a proper border station were you can get caught at any time, no matter how prepared you are. Actually, organized crime and smugglers are way smarter than these random checks: they send a “scout" car or more a few kilometers ahead to spot such road blocks and controls, alerting them to reroute if it’s the case . The famous “go fast” drug cartels that cross Europe on powerful cars full of drugs or weapons at high speed in nearly total impunity thanks to Schengen.
Organized crime and smugglers are way smarter than the customs officers too. They know to which border control point to go, who they can corrupt and so on. I've seen that between pre-Schengen Poland and Germany, as well as between pre-Schengen Czech Republic and Germany (when I was a student, I brought many accidented cars from France to Poland).

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For my part, I had a very embarrassing misadventure last summer: I was on holiday in France and used to go to the beach, a few kilometres away from the place I was staying. Having foreign plated vehicle, I was stuck almost every time in one of these random customs controls - 30 kilometers from the border - I was shelled with very unpleasant and dull questions like the 10’000 Euros and very personal issues, IDs, vehicule permit, trunk opening, drug dogs, scrutinising me and my car in every detail > just to go the beach , I felt like I was crossing border to Russia !
I don't know with what plates you drive, but I spent the last two years in France driving a Polish-licensed plated car and ... I was always better treated than when I had French license plates! I've had a couple of situations where the police was stopping lots of cars (French, English, Lithuanian, Romanian, Dutch, German...) and they looked at my car and let me go.
However, I know that people driving Lithuanian license plates get stopped very often. But I believe the worst is to drive in France with Dutch license plates. Almost each time I saw a foreign-plated car stopped on the French motorways, it had Dutch license plates.

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Furthermore, I traveled across Europe long before Schengen, and couldn't recall of any “hours waiting” on the border (in Western Europe). As for Switzerland, very few things have changed: border stations and checks haven’t disappeared, and they never was “hours waitings”. I think you are giving too much importance to Schengen .
It depends where you crossed. I recall crossing the border between Germany and Poland all the time in Słubice, because neighboring Świecko was always overcrowded. For people not used to crossing the borders it's just a waste of time. Making regular people waiting 1h30 at a border checkpoint with a 3-month-baby just because some people steal cars from Germany or because some Germans throw their trash in Polish forrests is like taking a hammer to kill a mosquito
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!

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Last edited by GROBIN; January 18th, 2015 at 11:51 AM.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 01:40 PM   #12326
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Have you ever crossed a Swiss border? I did last year. It's still the same procedure like pre-Schengen!
Yes I have and there was absolutely no procedure at all.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 01:46 PM   #12327
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I crossed it a few weeks back. The Austrians leave you alone but the Swiss still very much want to know what you are doing in their country.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 01:50 PM   #12328
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Quote:
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is like taking a hammer to kill a mosquito
Liked this.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 02:02 PM   #12329
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Quote:
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I crossed it a few weeks back. The Austrians leave you alone but the Swiss still very much want to know what you are doing in their country.
Even within the EU it happens. As I said several times before, look at the Polish customs officers waiting for "Russkies" on the Budzisko former border checkpoint with Lithuania - Via Baltica - on a daily basis. Not talking about the random customs controls 50km around you see them everywhere (Hołny Mejera, Giby, Augustów, Suwałki), but also on the Lithuanian side (Kalvarija, Lazdijai)

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Liked this.
I think this was really "Frenglish" - "prendre un marteau pour tuer une mouche" (mouche = fly)
Not gonna go deeper into this because I'm still afraid of Road_UK's van
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!

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Last edited by GROBIN; January 18th, 2015 at 02:07 PM.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 03:22 PM   #12330
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I crossed it a few weeks back. The Austrians leave you alone but the Swiss still very much want to know what you are doing in their country.
Okay, I'm confused. Are you saying Switzerland still has customs & immigration posts at its borders? I thought Schengen members weren't supposed to.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 03:36 PM   #12331
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Of course they do, since they are not EU members. Being Schengen members, they shouldn't ask you for an ID in order to let you cross, but they can verify you if you are bringing things without paying taxes for them, there are limits on goods, for example 1 kg of meat or cheese or something like that, specific amount of furniture...

Could be that on some small crossing there is only a hut and nobody's there. I crossed from Switzerland into Austria near the tripoint with Liechtenstein, it's over a bridge, nobody was there, I could walk from any country into the other without someone bothering me...
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Old January 18th, 2015, 05:34 PM   #12332
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I.e. CH is not supposed to carry out systematic person controls at the border, but they are free to look systematically for goods as it's a customs border.

Now comes the trick: if they stop you to check your goods, they may also ask for your ID. Non-systematic ID controls are allowed. And the border (no pun intended) between "systematic" and "non-systematic" ID controls is somewhat diffuse. A traveller won't be able to prove any case of systematic control anyway ...

So I agree in that not much changed with Schengen for road travellers; I think the main (visible) change is for air travellers who, since Schengen, do not need to queue at the non-Schengen desk and show their ID.

Concerning limits on goods, meat is indeed 1kg per person and day (any type of meat combined!), but cheese is unlimited within the 300 CHF/person and day allowance
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Old January 18th, 2015, 06:19 PM   #12333
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About custom controls... as many of you would remember, eleven years ago Spain had a huge terrorist attack where 191 people were dead.

At first it was known that attack was related with islamic people but they didn't know the branch.

Borders weren't closed at all either nothing quite special on airports and so.

Maybe in a "small" country it could worth to have controls but in a "medium" or "larger" country it doesn't worth. They should make regional controls indeed to control people moving because within the country you can drive more than one thousand km or fly from Canary islands to Barcelona non-stop (and to Balearic with a link).

A long time ago, before democracy, when police control on the street was higher it was quite often to have a lot of random checks. They were single roads (few motorways existed) and few traffic. Therefore, a couple of policemen could stay for a day or some hours making as many controls as they wanted stopping all cars.
In railway stations it was quite often to have officers that sometimes they just "were looking", sometimes they made random checks to passengers.


But in 2004 Spain did nothing at all. Nobody thought on Schengen area and they were worried to find attackers and to avoid a new one.

And..... they avoided. Two months later it was known that a bomb was set near the High speed lane Madrid-Seville. Traffic was cut and nothing happened (after eight hours without traffic).


Could it help to stop Schengen treaty?. I do not think so. Smuggling or so is enough to have bombs and army. And after you see a great deal of people coming from Central Africa who can finally entry into Spain without documents... how many of people from any corner in the world could entry with legal documentation?

In addition, these people usually have been living in the country and working for a while, thus it is not easy to point them at first.

It is much important secret investigation than a huge passport control
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Old January 18th, 2015, 06:32 PM   #12334
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Okay, I'm confused. Are you saying Switzerland still has customs & immigration posts at its borders? I thought Schengen members weren't supposed to.
There are some customs controls but there is no immigration control. Not to mention that I've never seen either.

All abandoned like anywhere else in Schengen

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Old January 18th, 2015, 06:59 PM   #12335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Yes I have and there was absolutely no procedure at all.
I drove from Germany to Italy last year. ID was just checked entering Switzerland. Back from Italy there was no check at all but there were officers.
I crossed the Hungarian/Romanian border last year. ID was just checked entering and leaving Romania. It took the same time like entering Switzerland (we had to buy the Swiss vignette so we had stop there. In total, crossing the Swiss border took much longer than entering Hungary).

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All abandoned like anywhere else in Schengen
I entered Switzerland on motorway (Chiasso) or motorway-like (Thayngen). The procedure was like entering Romania (Non-Schengen) or like entering Switzerland, Austria etc. in 1980th or 1990th. I don't know which is common, with or without officers like on your video.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 08:22 PM   #12336
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When I came back to France, I've got beaten by 3 "cité" guys just because ... I had no cigarettes. The police took me for a ride, pretending to look for them; and I heard from some stupid French people "those are people who have no point of reference, their parents are immigrants, you must understand them." And so what? Both my parents are also immigrants, from 2 different countries. Does that make me beat people on the streets for whatever reason?
Ouais mais la, tu sais, ils ne venaient pas du meme "genre" du pays it seems a strange, curious but mostly disappointing and depressing France de banlieue issue...

between Canada and USA 1h30 wait times to cross are unfortunately common, especially in summer and on main routes.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 08:28 PM   #12337
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At summer I was at CH too. There were no controls at the border.
http://youtu.be/P4Q-IesDNj0
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Old January 18th, 2015, 08:53 PM   #12338
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Ouais mais la, tu sais, ils ne venaient pas du meme "genre" du pays it seems a strange, curious but mostly disappointing and depressing France de banlieue issue...

between Canada and USA 1h30 wait times to cross are unfortunately common, especially in summer and on main routes.
I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I can't understand how 2 countries that never made war with each other can be so restrictive in terms of mutual border controls when on the other side of the ocean you have around 30 countries that opened their borders to each other despite huge wars, killing, raping, invading and territory disputes in the past...
However, Kanadzie, don't complain too much. You still have Israel-Egypt border (crossing it took me 2 hours between Taba and Eilat) and - the best of the best in my life - from Poland to Ukraine (Zosin / Ustyluh) - 8 hours...
However, there were also good times in Western Europe, when I wasn't afraid of crossing the French/Belgian (Bray-Dunes/De Panne) or the Belgian/German (Lichtenbusch/Aachen) at over 200km/h. Now, it would be very risky.
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!

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Last edited by GROBIN; January 18th, 2015 at 09:11 PM. Reason: stupid automatic corrector :D
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Old January 18th, 2015, 09:04 PM   #12339
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we did kind of make war, we burned down their White House But that was 200 years ago and they started it! But I agree your point completely.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 09:18 PM   #12340
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Quote:
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Okay, I'm confused. Are you saying Switzerland still has customs & immigration posts at its borders? I thought Schengen members weren't supposed to.
The Swiss essentially went for what I've been saying elsewhere - police (identity) controls were abolished, while Customs controls became country-wide. It was made clear at the time that the border infrastructure would remain in place (somewhat contrary to Schengen, but tolerated). As far as I know, the non-EU Schengen states actually do not have complete freedom of movement across the border, as you're still obliged to cross the border (and make a declaration) at a set place if you have more than the allowable amounts.

In practice, the Swiss are using intelligence-led checks - for example, the Swiss Customs were apparently out in full force on the border near Konstanz tis weekend due to the huge amount of shoppers.
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