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Old January 18th, 2015, 09:23 PM   #12341
John Maynard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
If what you call a police state means that regular people are free to live the life they want and have whatever opinion + criminals are peeing in their pants when seeing the police, then yes - I do.
When I was a teenager, I spent 2 years in Singapore, where I was not afraid of leaving the door open or my bike free of any chain.
When I came back to France, I've got beaten by 3 "cité" guys just because ... I had no cigarettes. The police took me for a ride, pretending to look for them; and I heard from some stupid French people "those are people who have no point of reference, their parents are immigrants, you must understand them." And so what? Both my parents are also immigrants, from 2 different countries. Does that make me beat people on the streets for whatever reason?
I agree on the principle, however it's police work to fight crime and investigate, not for customs official inland. Especially when random customs checks are arbitrary and imposed anywhere at any time, it’s just a huge infringement on individual freedom and a big spread of nosy State. Their were case, were people caves were searched in Massif Central (middle of France) by customs just because they came back from another EU country .
What a bully thing to give that power to customs inside the very country, knowing they have more power than police: they can search you, every person with you, and your car without any warrant, nor “probable cause”, it’s just the European version of the US Patriot Act .

Besides, you should refrain giving Singapore as a model of country: It’s not a democratic country at all, has an authoritarian and unique, ruling for 50 years political party, there is no “freedom of expression”; in fact, a small island-state that practice corporal punishment and apply death penalty far more often than even Texas . It's by no way a path for Europe.

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Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
Organized crime and smugglers are way smarter than the customs officers too. They know to which border control point to go, who they can corrupt and so on. I've seen that between pre-Schengen Poland and Germany, as well as between pre-Schengen Czech Republic and Germany (when I was a student, I brought many accidented cars from France to Poland).
You will agree that its harder for criminals to go through a stationary border, especially in Western Europe were customs officials “corruption” is not so widespread as it was the case in Poland or Eastern Germany.


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Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
I don't know with what plates you drive, but I spent the last two years in France driving a Polish-licensed plated car and ... I was always better treated than when I had French license plates! I've had a couple of situations where the police was stopping lots of cars (French, English, Lithuanian, Romanian, Dutch, German...) and they looked at my car and let me go.
However, I know that people driving Lithuanian license plates get stopped very often. But I believe the worst is to drive in France with Dutch license plates. Almost each time I saw a foreign-plated car stopped on the French motorways, it had Dutch license plates.
Well, I was driving on Swiss plates. Apparently, this is enough to push controls further. Nowadays, a Swiss is very suspicious for French douaniers , they simply cannot understand how a country can do so well, have a healthy and growing economy, virtually no unemployment, high wages and high quality of life, working institutions and democracy, fewer taxes and bureaucracy, all this must be very queer and perfidious . I know that because they kept on asking me if I was transporting more than 10’000 Euros, foreign money, gold (sure, to lie on it on the beach ), all sort of things related to wealth and prosperity .

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Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
It depends where you crossed. I recall crossing the border between Germany and Poland all the time in Słubice, because neighboring Świecko was always overcrowded. For people not used to crossing the borders it's just a waste of time. Making regular people waiting 1h30 at a border checkpoint with a 3-month-baby just because some people steal cars from Germany or because some Germans throw their trash in Polish forrests is like taking a hammer to kill a mosquito
Yes, and further just because of some people that were importing huge amount of drug, smuggling illegal war weapons to resell them to criminals in Western Europe from huge Cold War arsenals left in disuse, human trafficking of modern slaves, dangerous counterfeit medics, large amount of stolen cars…and the list is long.
On the other side, why should I be checked by border controls when going to work or leisure inside my own country, just because of...?

Last edited by John Maynard; January 18th, 2015 at 09:37 PM.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 09:23 PM   #12342
Autoputevi kao hobi
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I just found this:
https://www.google.rs/maps/@43.78457...8LQ-UyCtrA!2e0
This property is in France and in Italy too
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Old January 18th, 2015, 10:18 PM   #12343
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Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
I just found this:
https://www.google.rs/maps/@43.78457...8LQ-UyCtrA!2e0
This property is in France and in Italy too
The border looks like there, so the property seems entirely in Italy.

Anyway, I've seen a property located between Italy and Slovenia. The house and most of the garden is in Italy, while a narrow strip of garden is in Slovenia (border stones show it clearly).
It's not visible on Street Vew, but I've taken pics and one day I will post them (I've not that HD in my hands, now).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 10:20 PM   #12344
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we did kind of make war, we burned down their White House But that was 200 years ago and they started it! But I agree your point completely.
Please. You were still British, and they started it. :-P
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Old January 18th, 2015, 10:23 PM   #12345
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Are Monaco services totally independent?. This is, water network, electricity. I guess all come from France but... meters are handed by French services or own services?

btw, are there houses in the middle of the border?
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Old January 18th, 2015, 10:28 PM   #12346
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Are Monaco services totally independent?. This is, water network, electricity. I guess all come from France but... meters are handed by French services or own services?

btw, are there houses in the middle of the border?
French-Monegasque border is in many places unnoticeable, since it runs between buildings all the way. Only on major roads there are signs. It won't surprise me if there are houses cut in half.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 18th, 2015, 10:31 PM   #12347
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I guess most (or all) of them will have Monaco's address....
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Old January 18th, 2015, 10:34 PM   #12348
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
French-Monegasque border is in many places unnoticeable, since it runs between buildings all the way. Only on major roads there are signs. It won't surprise me if there are houses cut in half.
When I went there, I noticed everything is signed like in France. Principauté de Monaco is signed as if you entered a built-up area anywhere in France, and direction signs are identical. It is a bit of a pity because you really don't feel the difference at the borders, nor within the Monaco principality...
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old January 18th, 2015, 11:37 PM   #12349
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Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
When I went there, I noticed everything is signed like in France. Principauté de Monaco is signed as if you entered a built-up area anywhere in France, and direction signs are identical. It is a bit of a pity because you really don't feel the difference at the borders, nor within the Monaco principality...
Same San Marino, everything looks very Italian.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 19th, 2015, 04:57 AM   #12350
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Same San Marino, everything looks very Italian.
Monaco and San Marino are then opposite to Åland islands; they're de jure a part of Finland but all the traffic signs (as they're being renewed) look foreign. To be exact, Swedish.
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Old January 19th, 2015, 07:35 AM   #12351
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Ukrainians fleeing to Poland, Polish-Ukrainian border - NOV 2014
I just found this on the net and I don't know whether it is entertaining or simply Russian propaganda....

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Old January 19th, 2015, 11:20 AM   #12352
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Monaco and San Marino are then opposite to Åland islands; they're de jure a part of Finland but all the traffic signs (as they're being renewed) look foreign. To be exact, Swedish.
I prefer the strange mix that is Andorra. At one point you can feel like you are in Spain, but then you turn around, see something French and now the whole place appears to be in France.
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Old January 19th, 2015, 11:47 AM   #12353
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I prefer the strange mix that is Andorra. At one point you can feel like you are in Spain, but then you turn around, see something French and now the whole place appears to be in France.
I agree.
Even if the only official language in the country is Catalan, Spanish and French are quite used and also English because of international tourism (just have a glance to a national bank, tourism office or so on and you'll see web on four languages).


But... in the capital if you walk around the streets you will see many shops and restaurants where the only language (or the one in capital letters) is Spanish, as well as approaching to France it will shift to French (for instance, a blackboard with a restaurant menu).



Anyway... another "not international border" curiosity is the N-230 in Spain. I do not know why but in the last 40 km they have French format signals instead of Spanish ones!!!!!
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Old January 19th, 2015, 12:37 PM   #12354
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Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Monaco and San Marino are then opposite to Åland islands; they're de jure a part of Finland but all the traffic signs (as they're being renewed) look foreign. To be exact, Swedish.
The case Åland is somewhat sad. The administration wants to take every funny minor action to prove the Islands have some autonomy. Like copying traffic signs from Sweden. Or insisting it were illegal to show the name Maarianhamina/Mariehamn in Finnish on maps.
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Old January 19th, 2015, 01:24 PM   #12355
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The case Åland is somewhat sad. The administration wants to take every funny minor action to prove the Islands have some autonomy. Like copying traffic signs from Sweden. Or insisting it were illegal to show the name Maarianhamina/Mariehamn in Finnish on maps.
Like the South Tyrol Alpin Club, that install German-only signs in hiking trails, while the local law mandates bilingual signs.



Moreover, the organization's website, although based in Italy, is only in German.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 19th, 2015, 05:44 PM   #12356
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The case Åland is somewhat sad. The administration wants to take every funny minor action to prove the Islands have some autonomy. Like copying traffic signs from Sweden. Or insisting it were illegal to show the name Maarianhamina/Mariehamn in Finnish on maps.
Indeed. Finnish is not an official language in Åland. Neither is it in the United Kingdom, but nevertheless we use the name Lontoo instead of London. Never heard anyone complaining about that.
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Old January 19th, 2015, 07:55 PM   #12357
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Indeed. Finnish is not an official language in Åland. Neither is it in the United Kingdom, but nevertheless we use the name Lontoo instead of London. Never heard anyone complaining about that.
Ok with the language, but the style of traffic signs is usually the same in the whole country regardeless the language spoken.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old January 19th, 2015, 07:58 PM   #12358
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The case Åland is somewhat sad. The administration wants to take every funny minor action to prove the Islands have some autonomy. Like copying traffic signs from Sweden. Or insisting it were illegal to show the name Maarianhamina/Mariehamn in Finnish on maps.
The Åland Island is a autonomous region, let them do what they want to.. Where is the problem?
They had it granted to them, try to live with it man. It's not like they want to annoy you when making those laws, it's just the way they prefer.
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Old January 19th, 2015, 08:01 PM   #12359
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Ok with the language, but the style of traffic signs is usually the same in the whole country regardeless the language spoken.
Åland Islands earned a automonous region status, it's not compareable what they have in Italy or Switzerland or wherever.. Read up on some history, pretty sure theres a good article on the Åland question on wikipedia or somewhere
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Old January 19th, 2015, 08:32 PM   #12360
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Åland Islands earned a automonous region status, it's not compareable what they have in Italy or Switzerland or wherever.. Read up on some history, pretty sure theres a good article on the Åland question on wikipedia or somewhere
Alto Adige/Südtirol, as well as 4 other regions and another province in Italy, have the same status within Italy: regione (or provincia) autonoma.
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