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Old January 26th, 2015, 12:55 PM   #12401
italystf
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Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
As far as i heard Croatia is most corrupted country in EU,but that doesn't have to be true .
The problem is that corruption isn't a scientifically-measurable thing, like the area of a country or the lenght of its highway system.
Figures about corruption are usually based on the perceived corruption among people.
There are different form of corruption, some very visible among the public (like police officers asking bribes, common in developing countries) and others more hidden, like those involving high-level politicians, big companies, multi-million contracts, etc... Most episodes of corruption in developed countries refer to the second type.
Moreover, in democratic countries, where news circulate (almost) freely, the perceived corruption may looks like higher, compared to other countries were there is no or scarce freedom of information and corruption episodes remain secret and unprosecuted.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 01:34 PM   #12402
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I recently was put in charge of meteorological experiment in Raškovice, Czech Rep., near the borders with Slovakia and Poland... I foresee a nice trip to the tripoint
I thought you were working in some capacity for the European Space Agency
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Old January 26th, 2015, 01:37 PM   #12403
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If EU is to get serious about borders, it is best to admit Bulgaria and Romania, and then deploy FRONTEX resources there.

We also need a task force on the Mediterranean, especially on crucial points near Gibraltar and around Italian islands.

I'm not sure about how pervasive the Finnish-Russian border is though.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 01:39 PM   #12404
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

However, corruption is not the only criterion to accept a country in Schengen. Adequate border infrastructure and high security on the outer Schegen border are also of a primary importace.
From what I understood reading in this thread, Croatia has still a porous border with Bosnia, with many areas practically uncontrolled. Romania and Bulgaria seem having already upgraded border controls on the outer border (with Ukraine, Moldova and Turkey) but still EU is unsure to admit them in Schengen because there are many Romanians and Bulgarians going to Western Europe (and some of them cause troubles).
And how does, according to you, not being in Schengen prevent that? I find it incredible that after such a long time, so many people have no understanding of what EU and Schengen actually are.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 01:45 PM   #12405
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Romanians, Bulgarians and Croatians have freedom of movement for short-term stay.

They can freely travel throughout EU territories for leisure, business. The presence of a border control is not a restriction on free movement like the presence of a toll plaza doesn't preclude travel rights.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 02:02 PM   #12406
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I thought you were working in some capacity for the European Space Agency
No, I work for the Italian National Metrological Institute, but we're coordinating a European Project with experiments in several nations - Cz Rep included.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 02:21 PM   #12407
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Romanians, Bulgarians and Croatians have freedom of movement for short-term stay.
Any length of time including forever.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 02:45 PM   #12408
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Originally Posted by aubergine72 View Post
And how does, according to you, not being in Schengen prevent that? I find it incredible that after such a long time, so many people have no understanding of what EU and Schengen actually are.
1) If a country is highly corrupted, it's less efficient in patrolling the border, since corrupt border officers may let pass people unchecked in exchange of money.
2) EU can use the Schengen membership as a "weapon" to force member states to improve things, including reducing corruption. EU has less persuasive power to countries that are already fully integrated.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 03:47 PM   #12409
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Originally Posted by Autoputevi kao hobi View Post
Why not ?
I think that is unfair for Romania and Bulgaria,because they are longer in EU then Croatia and they are still not in Schengen.
The Schengen agreement is not about fairness or waiting lists. It is about trust, and currently there is no trust that Romania and Bulgaria as corruption hot spots are able (or even willing) to protect the perimeter.

Last edited by MattiG; January 26th, 2015 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Bloody spelling erors.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 03:51 PM   #12410
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Any length of time including forever.
Technically speaking, you need a valid reason to establish residence and start enjoying the tenets of equivalency with local citizens, such as study, retirement, work etc.

Of course, if you have your own money nothing precludes an EU citizen from buying or renting a house elsewhere and living there, but you can't just land in other EU country, unemployed and penniless, and start using social services immediately and getting all benefits.

You can go study elsewhere though, subject to regular entrance requirements.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 04:04 PM   #12411
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I'm not sure about how pervasive the Finnish-Russian border is though.
Do not worry, it is the most strictly controlled border in the EU. About every meter is electronically monitored, and there is a restricted border zone on the both sides. Most of the border line of 1340 km is located in a deserted wilderness. Therefore, anyone moving close to the border is an exception and subject to be spotted easily.



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Last edited by MattiG; January 26th, 2015 at 04:51 PM.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 04:25 PM   #12412
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Technically speaking, you need a valid reason to establish residence and start enjoying the tenets of equivalency with local citizens, such as study, retirement, work etc.

Of course, if you have your own money nothing precludes an EU citizen from buying or renting a house elsewhere and living there, but you can't just land in other EU country, unemployed and penniless, and start using social services immediately and getting all benefits.

You can go study elsewhere though, subject to regular entrance requirements.
I saw a story on a Belgian site a year or two ago about Belgium kicking out French people who'd been unemployed for too long.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 04:55 PM   #12413
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I saw a story on a Belgian site a year or two ago about Belgium kicking out French people who'd been unemployed for too long.
The UK is particularily strict on that. Aparently, kicking out an EU citizen from an EU country is allowed if (s)he has no income and it's proved that the purpose of his\her stay is to abuse the welfare care system.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 04:59 PM   #12414
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If memory serves, the "abuse" element wasn't present in these situations. People had moved to Belgium for jobs that then fell through or that they then lost. That sort of thing.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 06:35 PM   #12415
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Are there still border (both land or sea) disputes between HR and SLO or were they fully solved before HR joined EU?
I've read that there are still border disputes between HR and BiH, along the Sava river (HR-Repubilc of Sprska) and on the coast around Neum (HR-Federation of Bosnia-Herzegovina).
In the former Yugoslavia, all of the new republics have their border issues, although MNE and BIH are very close to a agreement (or did they already sign an agreement?)

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According to the Italian press, Croatia will aplly to Schengen membership on 1st July 2015 and will actually join in early 2016.
http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/trieste/...016-1.10730616
Seriously? Or 2016 is the date when Croatia will apply to join Schengen?
Croatia should the guard the border with BIH more heavily, the border is very long and very easy to cross, there are some places where the border runs between houses and in the middle of streets in built-up areas.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 07:11 PM   #12416
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Do not worry, it is the most strictly controlled border in the EU. About every meter is electronically monitored, and there is a restricted border zone on the both sides. Most of the border line of 1340 km is located in a deserted wilderness. Therefore, anyone moving close to the border is an exception and subject to be spotted easily.
"Festung Europa" (Fortress Europe) is working, that's good news when it comes from an old "Ally" !

If only a portion of this money would have been spent to put decent roads in Finland (where you're stuck on 1X1 60-80 km/h roads) .
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Old January 26th, 2015, 08:11 PM   #12417
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In the former Yugoslavia, all of the new republics have their border issues, although MNE and BIH are very close to a agreement (or did they already sign an agreement?)
Nope, agreement isn't signed. From BiH side, some Bosniak politicians risening question of Sutorina, part of BiH that communists give to MNE after WW2. But, I don't believe that dispute about Sutorina will be hindrance for signing the border agreement.
Bigger problem is territorial dispute between BiH (ie. Republic of Srpska) and Croatia about border in city of Kostajnica, where Croatian territorial claims enters into heart of the city itself. River Una there changed ???? (don't know word, Google say 'course'?) long time ago and city of Kostajnica continued to evolve on new shores (thats all in ex-YU times), but now Croats do not admit that. Similar to that is border dispute between Croatia and Serbia on river Danube about Šarengradska ada (Ilok and Bačka Palanka, respectively). Also, Croatia have border dispute with MNE about Prevlaka (south from Dubrovnik) and I'm sceptic that such country, with unsolved questions with almost all of neighbors will be accepted into Schengen, any time soon.

/sorry for my bad english...
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Old January 26th, 2015, 08:16 PM   #12418
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Nope, agreement isn't signed. From BiH side, some Bosniak politicians risening question of Sutorina, part of BiH that communists give to MNE after WW2. But, I don't believe that dispute about Sutorina will be hindrance for signing the border agreement.
Bigger problem is territorial dispute between BiH (ie. Republic of Srpska) and Croatia about border in city of Kostajnica, where Croatian territorial claims enters into heart of the city itself. River Una there changed ???? (don't know word, Google say 'course'?) long time ago and city of Kostajnica continued to evolve on new shores (thats all in ex-YU times), but now Croats do not admit that. Similar to that is border dispute between Croatia and Serbia on river Danube about Šarengradska ada (Ilok and Bačka Palanka, respectively). Also, Croatia have border dispute with MNE about Prevlaka (south from Dubrovnik) and I'm sceptic that such country, with unsolved questions with almost all of neighbors will be accepted into Schengen, any time soon.

/sorry for my bad english...
Slovenia was admitted in Schengen even with border disputes with Croatia.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 08:27 PM   #12419
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Slovenia was admitted in Schengen even with border disputes with Croatia.
yes, I know that, but this is, I believe, simply too much, even for Brusseles
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Old January 26th, 2015, 08:33 PM   #12420
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Technically speaking, you need a valid reason to establish residence and start enjoying the tenets of equivalency with local citizens, such as study, retirement, work etc.

Of course, if you have your own money nothing precludes an EU citizen from buying or renting a house elsewhere and living there, but you can't just land in other EU country, unemployed and penniless, and start using social services immediately and getting all benefits.

You can go study elsewhere though, subject to regular entrance requirements.
Then you shouldn't have singled out those three nationalities when this applies to all EU members.
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