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Old April 15th, 2015, 08:43 PM   #12881
the boat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Not quite right. Since 1997 (I think...), the obligation to present some sort of photo ID at RoI ports has existed. While formal identity controls might never have existed on the land border, carrying some sort of photographic ID when crossing the border was always highly recommended. I don't know about the RoI, but Northern Ireland always had the requirement for drivers to carry a driving licence when driving - so that was a de-facto identity check at checkpoints.

Anyway, the correct answer :

While formal border controls don't exist, it's a wise idea to carry the French ID card to prove your right to cross the border. The CTA only applies to British and Irish citizens, with all other citizens being required to carry an ID card (in the case of EU/EEA/CH citizens) or a passport (all others).

Holding a BN(O) passport should exempt you from immigration controls (and allow you to take advantage of the CTA), but in practice, the authorities will want some proof of British citizenship if you don't have a British/Irish accent.

Controls are not entirely uncommon - the Gardai tend to have a look at trains/public buses/coaches from time to time.

Apparently the UK and Ireland are slowly moving towards a unified visa space, but progress is painfully slow. Till then, we're stuck with the absurdity that is the CTA. Chinese and Indian nationals already benefit from a unified visa, but that's it for now.
I'm not sure what proof that they would be looking for since I was born in Hong Kong and have an HK ID card (but no passport, as I have the BN(O)).

So I think I should be fine if I use my French ID card, but this brings up another question of if I use my US Passport to enter the UK (Belfast), and the RoI does a "checkpoint stop," and I use another form of ID, wouldn't that cause an issue since the passport is scanned into the immigration database at the airport?
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Old April 15th, 2015, 08:59 PM   #12882
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In the last couple of months I flew 2 times from Germany/Austria to Dublin, then drove up to Belfast, and back. And a couple more times I flew from Schengen area to England and back.

If you fly in Belfast from a EU country, you can show your French ID and it will be fine. They won't ask too many questions. I always showed my Romanian ID card (I don't have a passport).

On the road between Dublin and Belfast there is no border check and I haven't even noticed any police check when I drove there last time. There's just a sign stating that the speed limit is now in mph (or km/h) and that's it. I wasn't stopped or checked in any way. There's just a toll plaza on the motorway nearby Drogheda (Pounds not accepted, but just Euros!). If you get stopped you can show the French ID card and it won't be a problem. EU passports/ID cards are not scanned (or maybe they are scanned, but not recorded) when entering or leaving UK or Ireland.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 09:04 PM   #12883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
In the last couple of months I flew 2 times from Germany/Austria to Dublin, then drove up to Belfast, and back. And a couple more times I flew from Schengen area to England and back.

If you fly in Belfast from a EU country, you can show your French ID and it will be fine. They won't ask too many questions. I always showed my Romanian ID card (I don't have a passport).

On the road between Dublin and Belfast there is no border check and I haven't even noticed any police check when I drove there last time. There's just a sign stating that the speed limit is now in mph (or km/h) and that's it. I wasn't stopped or checked in any way. There's just a toll plaza on the motorway nearby Drogheda (Pounds not accepted, but just Euros!). If you get stopped you can show the French ID card and it won't be a problem. EU passports/ID cards are not scanned (or maybe they are scanned, but not recorded) when entering or leaving UK or Ireland.
But this time (barring delays or cancellations due to ATC in Newark), I'll be arriving from the US in Belfast (which, IIRC is one of the very few flights outside of the CTA and EU/EEA/CH). And when leaving NI, my first stop is back in EWR.

Thank you on the advice about Euros instead of Pounds for the tolls--now I'll remember to bring some. Hopefully it won't be as obnoxious as entering Italy from France on A8.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 09:50 PM   #12884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the boat View Post
I'm not sure what proof that they would be looking for since I was born in Hong Kong and have an HK ID card (but no passport, as I have the BN(O)).

So I think I should be fine if I use my French ID card, but this brings up another question of if I use my US Passport to enter the UK (Belfast), and the RoI does a "checkpoint stop," and I use another form of ID, wouldn't that cause an issue since the passport is scanned into the immigration database at the airport?
Basically, you should use your French ID card (you're a French citizen, right?) to enter the UK with. The BN(O) passport still imposes immigration restrictions on you, as does the USA passport. If they were to stop you, then the French ID card is the best one to use. I mixed up the BN(O) passport with the BOTC passport.

If the French ID card isn't one given to French citizens but only residents, then the BN(O) passport is the next best bet.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #12885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Does someone know how border controls are performed there?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/45.6925/15.3014
You can see a local border checkpoint in GMaps. There's no control of the exclave.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 09:58 PM   #12886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Basically, you should use your French ID card (you're a French citizen, right?) to enter the UK with. The BN(O) passport still imposes immigration restrictions on you, as does the USA passport. If they were to stop you, then the French ID card is the best one to use. I mixed up the BN(O) passport with the BOTC passport.

If the French ID card isn't one given to French citizens but only residents, then the BN(O) passport is the next best bet.
I'm not a French citizen, I just happen to be based in France (TLS) for work, so I also have a French long-stay visa. When trying to read up about the difference in the various UK passports, it is quite confusing as various dependencies have their own passport. I did find it interesting though that BN(O) does not grant UK Right to Abode and in order to get ILR I would have to pay a "health surcharge."

Edit: I see that as part of EU directive 1932/2006, BN(O)s were added to Annex II of EC539/2001, which means that I do not have the free movement rights as well as not being a declared EU citizen.

Edit 2: Is the border crossing difficult if driving between Hungary and Ukraine?

Last edited by the boat; April 15th, 2015 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Found more information
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Old April 15th, 2015, 11:48 PM   #12887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Does someone know how border controls are performed there?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/45.6925/15.3014
There was no control when I visited the area. Some of my photos are published on Jan Krogh's excellent Geosite:
http://geosite.jankrogh.com/brezovica.htm
There is a border post but it was empty at that time.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 12:01 AM   #12888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the boat View Post
I'm not a French citizen, I just happen to be based in France (TLS) for work, so I also have a French long-stay visa. When trying to read up about the difference in the various UK passports, it is quite confusing as various dependencies have their own passport. I did find it interesting though that BN(O) does not grant UK Right to Abode and in order to get ILR I would have to pay a "health surcharge."

Edit: I see that as part of EU directive 1932/2006, BN(O)s were added to Annex II of EC539/2001, which means that I do not have the free movement rights as well as not being a declared EU citizen.

Edit 2: Is the border crossing difficult if driving between Hungary and Ukraine?
I would use the BNO passport to enter the UK in Belfast.

There do be frequent controls on trains entering the Republic from the North of Ireland. They are only looking for those that are obviously not UK/IRL citizens.

Similarly with the buses there can be controls on those when entering the republic. About 500M over the border is a lay by that the authorities use to carry out checks. These checks are quite random.

If driving in a private car the chances of being stopped is zero. If anyone in the Republic stops you just show the BNO passport and that there will be zero problems.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 12:49 AM   #12889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haddockman View Post
I would use the BNO passport to enter the UK in Belfast.

There do be frequent controls on trains entering the Republic from the North of Ireland. They are only looking for those that are obviously not UK/IRL citizens.

Similarly with the buses there can be controls on those when entering the republic. About 500M over the border is a lay by that the authorities use to carry out checks. These checks are quite random.

If driving in a private car the chances of being stopped is zero. If anyone in the Republic stops you just show the BNO passport and that there will be zero problems.
Thank you for the tips, hopefully United will allow me to use my BN(O) to board the flight to Belfast. Since the US doesn't have exit controls, I don't see why that would be a major issue, but one never knows.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 01:42 AM   #12890
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Probably many of us know that there is a narrow strip of land disputed between SLO and HR near the sea.
On Google Maps it appears to have some houses inside and it's traversed by a road, aparently closed to motorized traffic:
https://www.google.it/maps/dir/45.45...e3!4m2!4m1!3e2
At one entrance there's "only residents" sign, unfortunately I cannot explore other entrances as they are near border crossings and Street View doesn't cover them.
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.45417...W2Ilyhjbsg!2e0
Openstreetmap shows the entire area as Croatian, probably because they consider who actually controls it regardeless other claims:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/45.4543/13.6488
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 01:53 AM   #12891
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Extremely fragmented borders with many exclaves and enclaves were the norm, rather than the exception, in pre-XVIII century Europe. Here you can see the border between the Venetian Republic (white) and the Austrian Empire's Gorizia County (light blue) before 1797:

Full resolution (beware, huge pic): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...6sterreich.jpg
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old April 16th, 2015, 02:09 AM   #12892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the boat View Post
I'm not a French citizen, I just happen to be based in France (TLS) for work, so I also have a French long-stay visa. When trying to read up about the difference in the various UK passports, it is quite confusing as various dependencies have their own passport. I did find it interesting though that BN(O) does not grant UK Right to Abode and in order to get ILR I would have to pay a "health surcharge."

Edit: I see that as part of EU directive 1932/2006, BN(O)s were added to Annex II of EC539/2001, which means that I do not have the free movement rights as well as not being a declared EU citizen.

Edit 2: Is the border crossing difficult if driving between Hungary and Ukraine?
The establishment of BN(O) status was a disgusting event but it was nice because all these nice HK people moved to Canada instead
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Old April 16th, 2015, 02:16 AM   #12893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
The establishment of BN(O) status was a disgusting event but it was nice because all these nice HK people moved to Canada instead
IIRC, the term that was widely used was "moral debt" when referring to the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the fact that the UK sold us out (even though the New Territories had a 99 year lease, the Chinese government at that time was still relatively weak). At least BN(O) exists, I'm not sure what nationality people can claim in Macao if they were there before 1999.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 07:26 AM   #12894
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This is the border between Italy and France (A8 and SS1):

DSC_2447 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

Leaving France, but not quite at the border yet.

DSC_2451 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

The identification plate for the firm operating the particular tollway

DSC_2452 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

The border (sorry for the sign out of focus, but the camera was focusing on the rain drops)

DSC_2454 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

1st Variable Message Sign in Italy

DSC_2456 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

Advance notification for the services plaza

DSC_2461 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

DSC_2463 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

DSC_2464 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

DSC_2466 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

DSC_2468 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

DSC_2478 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

DSC_2493 by thediamondguest, on Flickr

The old border/customs post, which is now an RV parking area.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 07:44 AM   #12895
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Connecting remark: the Autostrada dei Fiori, running from the border to Genova, is a very scenic and pleasant drive, but also one of the most expensively tolled roads of Italy.

Also, when I drove there (2012), diesel was at a freaking 1.80 EUR/l at the motorway service stations; luckily I filled up in Menton (before getting on motorway) at around 1.35 EUR/l.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 07:45 AM   #12896
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Quote:
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Connecting remark: the Autostrada dei Fiori, running from the border to Genova, is a very scenic and pleasant drive, but also one of the most expensively tolled roads of Italy.

Also, when I drove there (2012), diesel was at a freaking 1.80 EUR/l at the motorway service stations; luckily I filled up in Menton (before getting on motorway) at around 1.35 EUR/l.
It was 5EUR just to clear the first toll plaza and get off of the tollway at the first junction. I was actually nervous that I would have to pay again to get out, until I found SS1.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 08:59 AM   #12897
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Another pic of Victoria Falls, Zambia/Zimbabwe


Victoria Falls
by pizzanaoengorda, on Flickr
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Old April 16th, 2015, 08:50 PM   #12898
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Amazing one... and seems to have some traffic
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Old April 16th, 2015, 09:59 PM   #12899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the boat View Post
I'm not a French citizen, I just happen to be based in France (TLS) for work, so I also have a French long-stay visa. When trying to read up about the difference in the various UK passports, it is quite confusing as various dependencies have their own passport. I did find it interesting though that BN(O) does not grant UK Right to Abode and in order to get ILR I would have to pay a "health surcharge."

Edit: I see that as part of EU directive 1932/2006, BN(O)s were added to Annex II of EC539/2001, which means that I do not have the free movement rights as well as not being a declared EU citizen.

Edit 2: Is the border crossing difficult if driving between Hungary and Ukraine?
Aha!

So you should use the BN(O) passport rather than the USA one. While the BN(O) doesn't give you EU freedom of movement/right of abode, you're still a British citizen.

The border crossing between Hungary and Ukraine is no problem if you own the car. If you don't and the owner isn't travelling with you, then it can be more of an issue.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 10:21 PM   #12900
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Live web-cams on FYROM's border checkpoints
http://www.roads.org.mk/315/video-kameri
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