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Old July 20th, 2015, 12:50 AM   #13321
pyramidxx
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I don't understand why border controls are??? Immigrants from Muslim states of Asia are going free without any documents,in front to Europe!!They have money,equipped with mobile phones,and only one plan-----coming in Europe!!Who are that people??Why only men between 18-30 years old??This is now real invasion..in Bulgaria,is waiting about 50.000 immigrants to cross over inn Serbia and straight on Hungarian border!!!By the way in Greece is about 100.000 immigrants,what cross over Macedonian border also in a way over Serbia to Hungarian border....This is moving of people,this is not immigration!!! Asia and Africa is moving into Europe!! Muslim people make invasion,what said dead leader of Libya,Moamer Gadaffi...This is gift of wars..thanks to Italy and France)))) Good luck Europe!!!
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Old July 20th, 2015, 12:53 AM   #13322
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I noticed above that someone mentioned that Hungary is an attractive destination - why so? Isn't it like Poland where welfare payments to refugees are minimal?
you are stupid..they are only in transit..over Hungary!!They take asylum documents and after continue traveling to Germany,France,Sweden.They are new citizens,maybe islamists,or jihadists..nobody knows..But soon they will living near you))))
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Old July 20th, 2015, 12:56 AM   #13323
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Originally Posted by Autostädter View Post
I hate the fact that this is necessary. I always resented the Americans for putting up that fence on the Mexican border. Now the same is happening here. Europe used to be about open borders and now because of that, other borders are being fortified. Well, I guess it has to be, although this fence will hardly stop anyone.
I'm also for that!!Open borders of Europe and take people from Iraq,Syria,Libya..Africa to live in Europe!!Syria can be in Germany...Libya can be in France..and Africa can be in Italy!! Give your homes,houses for refugees..their women and children!!!
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Old July 20th, 2015, 01:17 AM   #13324
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Originally Posted by pyramidxx View Post
..they are only in transit..over Hungary!!
Unfortunately, no. Many of them also remain in Hungary. Like in other EU countries, they receive free shelter, food, medical assistance and pocket money at taxpayers' expense (nothing against assistance for real refugees, but stop it for economic migrants / welfare tourists and criminals/terrorists). Thus a lot of them aren't pressed anymore to move on to the West.
Furthermore, those having moved on from Hungary can be shipped back from more attractive countries (like Germany and Austria) according to the Dublin agreement.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 12:12 PM   #13325
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Border stone Italy-France on the military road (closed to traffic) from Colle di Tenda to Fort Giaur:


The border closely follows the road, including hairpins, leaving the whole road completely in France.

Pic taken by me, in this location:
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Col...80ef38c93692eb

Last edited by g.spinoza; July 20th, 2015 at 12:49 PM.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 02:17 PM   #13326
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Originally Posted by AsHalt View Post
Dude are you living in the cold war? They can't use landmines anymore due to some agreement.
Please no... a border fence is OK, since it doesn't harm innocent people but mines... it would be criminal!
Land mines kill and harm innocent people also decades after the conflict is over (and in this case there's no even a conflict between Hungary and Serbia), and removing them is extremely costly and risky. Some wild areas in the Balkans are still off-limits due to mines from the 1990s. Imagine when Serbia will join Schengen, that could be possible in a couple of decades, if Schengen hasn't been dissolved before. People legally hiking in the bush along the border will risk to die due to an accidental detonation. Thanks God that mines are now forbidden due to international laws, they're a very terrible weapon.
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Today I've heard an opinion that the fence is not human.

So, if so, a question should emerge
- is border crossing equipped by modern technologies between Finland/Russia, Poland/Belarus, Slovakia/Ukraine, Hungary/Ukraine human?
- is security check before getting on plane human?
- is perimeter fence in my garden human?
- is the entrance door to my apartment with advanced anti-thief lock human?

Or is this just double-standard topic.

I don't like barbed wire, neither Orban nor his policy but... Hungary is doing their best in security of outer Schengen border and are being criticized for doing that. It implies the best solution is to give up borders in general and let everyone moving around here and there. But then there should be a question arisen (concerning this thread). Does Schengen area have any sense then?

A true words has been spoken: We are living the age of oppressed minorities.
Agree. This project had been criticized only because it was conceived by the current Hungarian government, that is anti-EU and anti-USA. In reality, it's perfectly consistent with international laws and, unlikely the Berlin Wall, it allows normal law-abiding people to cross the border at designated crossings with ID or passport exactly like before. Actually I wish that Italy was so serious in controlling our outer border, that is the Mediterranean Sea.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; July 20th, 2015 at 02:24 PM.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 05:04 PM   #13327
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italystf, a land border is quite different from a maritime one. In the first case you can easily build a barrier, in the second one it's not that simple. What do you mean by "being more serious in controlling the Mediterranean"? What are the measures you expect?
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Old July 20th, 2015, 05:07 PM   #13328
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
The border closely follows the road, including hairpins, leaving the whole road completely in France.
Funny; why does the border follow the road and even hairpins?
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Old July 20th, 2015, 05:09 PM   #13329
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Does anyone know if there are signs advising of time zones in Europe?
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Old July 20th, 2015, 05:13 PM   #13330
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I didn't see any on the Spain-Portugal border.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 05:26 PM   #13331
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Once I had to move one hour in Australia between Coolangatta (Queensland) and Tweed Heads (New South Wales) (on the coast), in the middle of the urban area.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 06:42 PM   #13332
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I didn't see any on the Spain-Portugal border.
Do you mean in the last trip in Spain near Badajoz?
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Old July 20th, 2015, 06:52 PM   #13333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Funny; why does the border follow the road and even hairpins?
That part of the border was changed right after WWII: before that, Colle della Scala was not an international border, in fact Upper Roja Valley (Brigue and Tende, south of the Colle) were in Italy.

According to the treaty, Italy could not mantain any military settlement near the border, so all the forts in the Colle della Scala area (Fort Giaure, Fort Centrale, Fort Tabourde, Fort Pernante, Fort Pepin, Fort de la Marguerie) were ceded to France, including the roads connecting them.

This happened also in other parts of the border with France (Fort Chaberton near Montgenevre; Fort de Variselle near Mont Cenis).
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Old July 21st, 2015, 10:10 AM   #13334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haddockman View Post
Does anyone know if there are signs advising of time zones in Europe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I didn't see any on the Spain-Portugal border.
Neither on Finland-Sweden, Finland-Norway or Lithuania-Poland.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 11:23 AM   #13335
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Do you know if Đala - Tiszasziget border crossing serves inclusively local traffic?
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Old July 21st, 2015, 02:05 PM   #13336
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Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
Do you know if Đala - Tiszasziget border crossing serves inclusively local traffic?
Since you are Polish citizen, you can cross it (Serbia+EU+EEA+CH). It's open 7-19h.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 02:47 PM   #13337
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Originally Posted by Turick View Post
italystf, a land border is quite different from a maritime one. In the first case you can easily build a barrier, in the second one it's not that simple. What do you mean by "being more serious in controlling the Mediterranean"? What are the measures you expect?
Police and military ships patrolling the sea and the ports where they usually arrive, especially Lampedusa.
In Lampedusa they should build a huge military facility where migrants are temporarily detained and identified. Only those who fulfill requirements for asylum would be sent to Italy. All other would be given water, food, clothes, required medical care and then repatriated. And of course, human traffikers arrested.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old July 21st, 2015, 09:42 PM   #13338
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Patrols are already in force and smugglers are already being arrested. Your proposal would destroy the only income for the peolple of Lampedusa: turism.
I agree with the idea of identification centres, but they can't be only there.

I think this discussion is off topic, though. Maybe we should continue in the apposite thread in the DLM.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 09:49 PM   #13339
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Originally Posted by haddockman View Post
Does anyone know if there are signs advising of time zones in Europe?
No signs at Romania/Hungary border.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 10:51 PM   #13340
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Railway station Bayerisch Eisenstein/Železná Ruda-Alžbětín is built on the border of Germany and Czech Republic. Border line goes through the station building.



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