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Old October 27th, 2015, 01:53 AM   #13901
Kanadzie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The hotel room in Murmask costs 200 € per night. They take a taxi to Nikel where they buy the bicycles. The dealer said that they pay at any costs, even 300 €. They just ride the bike for 100m b/n the Russian and the Norwegian border guard.
What the hell? I am sure you could buy an apartment outright for 200 Euro in Murmansk Moskva it is not!
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Old October 27th, 2015, 02:07 AM   #13902
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It's a lot of work emigrating to another country, starting a new life, etc etc
If you are going to do it, might as well go to a proper country

I mean they need to survive firstly (so go a place without beards chasing them) but need to live also...
Europe (EU/AELE here, as Russia is also part of Europe) cannot accomodate all the misery of the world (which most of these "refugees" are not even close to it) and give them undefinitely free money, accomodation, leisure, medical care, education and food, as it's exclusively what they come for here; at the end it's always the "aborigeneous" that pay for it, which many are not "rich" btw. .
There are many opportunities in other places they pass through without stoping, as well. They could make, per example, as medical doctor, more money in Lebanon or Turkey than in many countries in Europe, but they are not interested in .

And I find your metaphor of beards quite discriminating to all the carrier of facial hair, whose overwhelmingly majority are not related to Islam in any kind of way .

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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Even if Russia is a multicultural country, part of the public opinion is xenofobic towards non-white people, probably more than in Europe or the USA. There are many Russian citizens of Muslim religion, mostly in Chechnya, Dagestan and Tatarstan but their integration hasn't always being peaceful, remember the war against Chechen separatists / terrorists.
Well, it's depend of the EU country you're in. Some are very "tolerant and welcoming" like Sweden, others just don't want any none Christian massive immigration. I think that most of these Russia "xenofobic" claims are just stereotypes and "anti" propaganda. Only in Moscow, Muslim population reach 2 millions persons (15% of the population), and they are more than 8'000 mosques in Russia - it wouldn't be possible if what you claim is right . Let's not forget that there is an impressively increasing number of "xenophobic" attitude just in Germany since Merkel "openely welcomed and warmly awaited" all the Syrians (and others) to come live in her "Heimat".
In fact, Islam wasn't "peaceful" in none place it settled massively, there were and will always be trouble, tension and violence with the local population, as well as Islamic extremisms, remember French and British "now prevalent" terrorist attacks?

Last edited by John Maynard; October 27th, 2015 at 02:30 AM.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 03:23 AM   #13903
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I have facial hair too, but not an Osama-beard neither

I think the question is of support. You bring up the "free money, accomodation, etc" of the welfare system of EU countries. But really why? Don't give them anything but let them work and be productive members of the society. Maybe these subsidies and supports are too rich for anyone in the country and should just be dispensed with for everyone. Certainly almost all EU countries would do much better (for typical people) with an outright reduction in government social spending of say 15 or 20%.

There is something with the anti-Islam backlash, on one hand it is terribly offensive to Western sensibilities... clearly xenophobic and clearly out of line with all of our experiences with Muslim people day-to-day (friendly and nice people). But open a newspaper and there is always killing and explosions and other horror and always Islam is tied into it somehow. It is delicate question...
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Old October 27th, 2015, 11:45 AM   #13904
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Of course. No news channel or newspaper says 'Mr Mohammed Abdul from Morocco emigrated to Italy to work as a factory worker, he goes to work every morning, bring his children to school, eat dinner with his family,...' Doesn't matter if there are 1000 Mohammed like him. But the one who blows himself in a public place or murders his daughter makes world headlines.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 01:08 PM   #13905
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I think I saw people walking across the borderpoint Ivangorod-Narva, there was a certain passage for pedestrians there when I last visited in 1998.
Yes, you can - Narva-1 (which is for everyone) and Narva-2 (which is for Estonians and Russians only) are both accessible to pedestrians. Narva-2 is specifically pedestrian-only as well.

Belarus used to allow it, but strangely stopped it not so long ago. There's apparently discussions on building some pedestrian path from Terespol to Brest, but things move verrrry slowly on the Belarus side.

But it's the same problem at Kroscienko (PL/UA) - there's no public transport across the border and no possibility of crossing on foot.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 09:13 PM   #13906
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Abdul from Morocco emigrated to Italy to work as a factory worker
No, I met him yesterday. Abdul emigrated to Germany for studying and he works as a programmer now. He complained yesterday that there are so many foreigners in their mosque now. Moroccan are a minority group now!

Sorry for OT.
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Old October 28th, 2015, 02:40 AM   #13907
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I have facial hair too, but not an Osama-beard neither

I think the question is of support. You bring up the "free money, accomodation, etc" of the welfare system of EU countries. But really why? Don't give them anything but let them work and be productive members of the society. Maybe these subsidies and supports are too rich for anyone in the country and should just be dispensed with for everyone. Certainly almost all EU countries would do much better (for typical people) with an outright reduction in government social spending of say 15 or 20%.
And if you had an Ossama-like beard, would that make you evil and necessarily bad ?

Actually, many welfare benefits are immigrants oriented only, so that even the needy natives are not benefiting of it. I am against cutting welfare, because it helps lots of people to have just a "decent" living. I do not want to see very "rich" minority in one side and extremely poors beggars on the other. Capitalism was always and is based on and creates inequalities. I think that some "subsidies" are needed to keep peace and cohesion in a "civilized" society. But, I agree with you that some of these - like inviting and giving "infinitely" welfare money to "illegal" immigrants - is just too much excessive, and most of all, must not end by touching those really needy .
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Old October 28th, 2015, 03:12 AM   #13908
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
But, I agree with you that some of these - like inviting and giving "infinitely" welfare money to "illegal" immigrants - is just too much excessive, and most of all, must not end by touching those really needy .
That's why the Australian way - if consequently implemented - is exemplary: they are not inhuman, they provide necessary assistance to anyone approaching their coast without a valid visa on a vessel, but none of these illegals will be settled in Australia. Asylum seekers arriving without a visa will be transferred to Nauru and PNG and even if asylum is granted, they will remain in these countries.

The difficult part here is to actually find nearby countries ready for the deal "refugees against financial support". What countries could these be in the case of Greece for example?
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Old October 28th, 2015, 11:15 AM   #13909
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That's why the Australian way - if consequently implemented - is exemplary: they are not inhuman, they provide necessary assistance to anyone approaching their coast without a valid visa on a vessel, but none of these illegals will be settled in Australia. Asylum seekers arriving without a visa will be transferred to Nauru and PNG and even if asylum is granted, they will remain in these countries.

The difficult part here is to actually find nearby countries ready for the deal "refugees against financial support". What countries could these be in the case of Greece for example?
If Australia can force asylum seekers to accept asylum in a hellhole like Papua New Guinea (one of the poorest and most violent country in the world, inhabitated by uncivilized tribes who fight each other and with a homicide rate much times higher than the US one), why can't Europe force part of them to stay in former Warsaw pact countries, that are now paradises if compared to PNG?
I'm not against real asylum seekers, but I think that a so huge number of immigrants could be managed more easily if equally spread across the Old Continent, instead only in the more 'generous' countries. Too generours benefits to immigrants only (instead to everybody who is poor) don't help immigrants to integrate better, but increase natives' hostility towards them and make their integration even more difficult, as natives are more likely to accept 'guest workers', rather than 'welfar abusers'.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 28th, 2015, 11:49 AM   #13910
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Let's keep this on track please folks before the thread gets closed!
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Old October 28th, 2015, 01:30 PM   #13911
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Border of Chile and Argentina at Paso de San Francisco

Border post of Chile




Due to altitude of pass the border posts are quite far from real border. It's still 108 km to drive to real border.



The border post of Argentina is only 20 km after border.




Pictures from http://tarmotamming.blogspot.com.ee
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Old October 28th, 2015, 06:56 PM   #13912
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European borders crashed..I can't imagine if USA would allow so traveling without any documents??
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Old October 28th, 2015, 06:59 PM   #13913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
If Australia can force asylum seekers to accept asylum in a hellhole like Papua New Guinea (one of the poorest and most violent country in the world, inhabitated by uncivilized tribes who fight each other and with a homicide rate much times higher than the US one), why can't Europe force part of them to stay in former Warsaw pact countries, that are now paradises if compared to PNG?
I'm not against real asylum seekers, but I think that a so huge number of immigrants could be managed more easily if equally spread across the Old Continent, instead only in the more 'generous' countries. Too generours benefits to immigrants only (instead to everybody who is poor) don't help immigrants to integrate better, but increase natives' hostility towards them and make their integration even more difficult, as natives are more likely to accept 'guest workers', rather than 'welfar abusers'.
I'll make a better choice!! Transport all them to USA and Britain!! USA started wars in Iraq and Libya and Syria..so they need take all that people without land!!Next few millions what are refugees..
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Old October 28th, 2015, 07:04 PM   #13914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
They have so much money to make all that "adventure" trip, but are not ambitious enough to settle in one of the dozens "welcoming" town on the thousands kilometres way "through". Welfare "appeal" is really much more attractive than I thought . In the meantime, EU economic crisis is still striking and hard...


Russia is a multicultural country and muslims people are part of their country. Furthermore, many former Soviet republics were almost entirely muslim. By the way, current Russian project is to create an Eurasian "union" regrouping Europeans, Asians, Muslims, Budhists, etc...But, apparently many just prefer to go to the very generous "West"
A lot of people don't know,that Russia export Chechens over border with Belarus!! They go by train directly to Poland without visa..and take asylum there.So a lot of Chechen terrorists are already in Europe,and most interesting is that their families have between 7-10 children!! So it's a good life without working,very clever European system!!Men are mafia,very well in crime,killing,prostitution....so well incorporated in European life!!
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Old October 28th, 2015, 07:33 PM   #13915
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Italy/Austria

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una delle più belle ma "sconosciute" ai più: è stata definita la più bella strada panoramica del Tirolo.

"Si inizia con cinque sculture del notissimo architetto Werner Tscholl (“Messner Mountain Museum Castel Firmiano“) che forniscono ai viaggiatori informazioni in modo divertente su natura, storia, cultura e l`economia di questa regione montagnosa assolutamente unica nel suo genere. Il “Museo del Passo“ a quota 2509 offre particolari impressioni della faticosa costruzione della strada e rende il giusto omaggio allo straordinario impegno dei pionieri. Il “Granat“ regala panorami spettacolari su Moso e suggerisce spunti interessanti sulla retrostante Val Passiria. Anche la piattaforma panoramica "ponticello” permette viste vertiginose e riporta notizie sugli insediamenti e sulle meraviglie della natura nella valle dell’Ötztal. Infine la stazione "contrabbandiere” è dedicata interamente al mondo avventuroso, appunto, dei contrabbandieri mentre il “telescopio“ focalizza lo sguardo sul parco naturale Gruppo di Tessa con i suoi giganteschi ghiacciai."

[repubblica.it]

PASSO ROMBO - TIROLO - ITALIA/AUSTRIA


One of the most beautiful panoramic road of "Tirolo" region, between Italy & Austria. M. 2509 over sea level.
This road has been built between 1955-1968. "passo rombo" is one of the coolest and windy place in the Alps region

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Old October 28th, 2015, 08:57 PM   #13916
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Tht road is open only in summer and it's tolled in the Austrian side. It's one of the highest border crossings in Europe.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 01:14 AM   #13917
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No tunnels, bridges or so and tolled?
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Old October 29th, 2015, 02:01 PM   #13918
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No tunnels, bridges or so and tolled?
Yes.
http://www.timmelsjoch.com/en/conten...ates+2015.aspx
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 02:06 PM   #13919
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No tunnels, bridges or so and tolled?
many "touristic mountain passes" are tolled , and generally are opened April/October
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Old October 30th, 2015, 10:06 AM   #13920
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Austria is quite a strange country when it comes to road tolls. You have the vignette compulsory for motorways/expressways, but many stretches are tolled too, per example tunnels or even full motorways such as Brenner - in one side you have the vignette that costs more than the double of the Swiss one (yearly), but have too pay "extras" all the time . Then you have narrow high altitude pass roads that are tolled and terribly expensives for God knows what reason
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