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Old February 17th, 2016, 11:28 PM   #14241
piotr71
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Croatia/Bosnia&Hercegovina

Can anybody cross this border here or it's for local community only? I presume it is, but I am wondering how it actually works?
And this one?
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Old February 18th, 2016, 12:38 AM   #14242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
I don't think so. Two nations (Germany and Sweden) caused the issue. The Swedish government has already changed its mind and most probably the German one, too, will do it (either the government changes its mind, or the mind changes its government).
And if border control will be restored at the external borders (with or without Greece), the internal borders can be opened again.
Actually the Schengen suspension of several countries is just partly true... Right now it just means that they put police 24 hrs on certain specific roads (mainly motorways). But on most of the rest of the roads there are no cheks at all...
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Old February 18th, 2016, 02:00 AM   #14243
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And who's fault? EU and its dream has shot itself in the foot - by totally anti-democratically and lawlessly widely opening its borders to all illegal non-European immigrants.
For instance, that's like if Americans would open their borders to all illegal Mexicans and the whole world, and imposing quotas and punishments to each State without even asking them after that. This would never happen there, since there would be another "secession" if it ever occur.

.
To be honest, this is essentially the exact reality of the USA situation from 1776 to ca. 1920. Except quotas were not issued to states, but if states refused migrants there would have been penalties of whatever sort (they were smart enough not to object ) There were various objections from small-minded people because of the Irish liking the Pope, then the Italians having too dark hair or something, and now literally everyone in the country drinks dyed beer on St Patrick's Day and eats pizza weekly.

(I ignore 1890-ish era Chinese Exclusion Acts just to help my point...)
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Old February 18th, 2016, 02:25 AM   #14244
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There were various objections from small-minded people because of the Irish liking the Pope, then the Italians having too dark hair or something, and now literally everyone in the country drinks dyed beer on St Patrick's Day and eats pizza weekly.
Hopefully we won't end up in banning pork meat and alchool and destroying churches by the next century.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 02:31 AM   #14245
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I hope not. They can pull my whiskey and bacon from my cold, dead hands!
But the historical trend would only mean that we would be eating more kebabs, shawarmas and pickled turnips, and garlic sauce. Which are honestly delicious and wonderful
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Old February 18th, 2016, 07:05 AM   #14246
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Pope Francis in Juarez/El Paso (MEX-USA) celebrating the first binational catholic mass in history by a Pope.











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Old February 18th, 2016, 07:24 AM   #14247
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The Cross Border Express (Tijuana Airport/San Diego) (MEX-USA)









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Old February 18th, 2016, 10:30 AM   #14248
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Quote:
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gestarbeiter
Sorry for taking the least important part of your post :-)
They're "Gastarbeiter" (literally: guest worker).

Last edited by Attus; February 18th, 2016 at 11:19 AM.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 11:52 AM   #14249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
To be honest, this is essentially the exact reality of the USA situation from 1776 to ca. 1920. Except quotas were not issued to states, but if states refused migrants there would have been penalties of whatever sort (they were smart enough not to object ) There were various objections from small-minded people because of the Irish liking the Pope, then the Italians having too dark hair or something, and now literally everyone in the country drinks dyed beer on St Patrick's Day and eats pizza weekly.

(I ignore 1890-ish era Chinese Exclusion Acts just to help my point...)
Prior to WWI, there was almost no border control in Europe (and in many other places in the world), you could virtually take a train from London to Delhi without even being checked (or little) .

The situation you describe, however, is very different from the situation we know today in Europe with the migrant crisis. These people that emigrated to the USA during the 19th century were in vast majority Europeans Christians that integrated pretty well (well, if you except Italians Mafiosi ), not Arabic Muslims, nor colored "culturally different" folks .
Imagine, today if America would have taken these people back then instead, it would be a very different world and country .
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Old February 18th, 2016, 12:32 PM   #14250
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I can only talk for CH, but from memory, the law was changed there post-Schengen to enable Customs controls anywhere in Switzerland.

There's a good article by the Swiss Customs about it here - http://www.ezv.admin.ch/themen/04097/index.html?lang=en
These mobile units controls were already in place before Switzerland joined officially Schengen, and authorized since 2004 (Bilateral relations agreements with the EU).

Though, we have lost civil rights on account of Schengen, as now you could not only get checked and searched at the border, but also in the entire Schengen territory, inland included, by customs without any justified motivation nor probable cause . On the other side, international criminality, burglaries, illegal migration and fraud, among others, has never been so prosperous. Curiously, less borders = more controls, policing and more criminality, for CH (but not only).
http://www.swissinfo.ch/fre/gendarme...isse-/35608490
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Old February 18th, 2016, 12:41 PM   #14251
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So, nobody want to answer to my previous question - police controling as customs?
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Old February 18th, 2016, 01:03 PM   #14252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Prior to WWI, there was almost no border control in Europe (and in many other places in the world), you could virtually take a train from London to Delhi without even being checked (or little) .

The situation you describe, however, is very different from the situation we know today in Europe with the migrant crisis. These people that emigrated to the USA during the 19th century were in vast majority Europeans Christians that integrated pretty well (well, if you except Italians Mafiosi ), not Arabic Muslims, nor colored "culturally different" folks .
Imagine, today if America would have taken these people back then instead, it would be a very different world and country .
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
These mobile units controls were already in place before Switzerland joined officially Schengen, and authorized since 2004 (Bilateral relations agreements with the EU).

Though, we have lost civil rights on account of Schengen, as now you could not only get checked and searched at the border, but also in the entire Schengen territory, inland included, by customs without any justified motivation nor probable cause . On the other side, international criminality, burglaries, illegal migration and fraud, among others, has never been so prosperous. Curiously, less borders = more controls, policing and more criminality, for CH (but not only).
http://www.swissinfo.ch/fre/gendarme...isse-/35608490
Dude, you are just ranting and your rants are further and further from the topic of this thread which is, just to remind you, "International border crossings"

No about merits of immigration and emigration or racial or cultural issues in modern politics.

If you speak Polish there is great thread for you on Polish forum which is basically wholesome moaning about immigrants, with some sensible comments from time to time:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...5812&page=2319


Oh, and stop posting multiple post one under another one, use option of EDIT instead.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 01:14 PM   #14253
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Just in case you haven't seen it, I am answering to others posts. And, If you don't like my opinions, just go to another thread, you'd find more similar people than you, dude.

And I am not "ranting", but awaiting for an answer from original post, you're too restless to respond.

BTW., many people in this forum are multiple posting in answer to different posts, but you are the only one to pass a remark.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 03:07 PM   #14254
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I think you guys are misunderstanding a key fact: Schengen is a protocol for unimpeded travel, for a surrender or customs authority, in or outside the territory of member states!

First, a step back: free movement of goods and people predate Schengen for a couple decades and are far more reaching than it.

Most European countries have commonly deputized enforcement for all its forces, meaning a border patrol can check ID, road police can check for undeclared goods and so forth.

A simple example: several EU countries have laws on how much cash you might carry undeclared across borders, including EU borders. Other countries might officially challenge you to prove the legal origin of large amounts of cash that are not declared on tax forms or as otherwise required.

Alcohol and tobacco are subject to some special limits even for intra-EU transportation (exception to common market0 [source]. This can be checked by police, Schengen or non-Schengen in place.

It was reported some years ago in the press that the tax police in Italy was using some ultra high tech scans to try to find money dirty mafia money being carried over through Swiss borders.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 03:40 PM   #14255
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After Paris attacks France had borders closed as it is known.

In the case of Bielsa-Aragnouet tunnel, there was so few traffic that they gave police to open for 12 hours (they worked more but had to go from headquarters to tunnel).
After talking with Spanish police, these last ones offered to control the tunnel for four hours more daily and opening 6 to 22 everyday.
This is, just after Paris attacks, French police trusted in Spanish police to control one out of the less operated border crossing for a while everyday


(clearly it shouldn't be hard, it has few traffic, now in winter someone to ski resorts but not in november....)
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Old February 18th, 2016, 04:24 PM   #14256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think you guys are misunderstanding a key fact: Schengen is a protocol for unimpeded travel, for a surrender or customs authority, in or outside the territory of member states!

First, a step back: free movement of goods and people predate Schengen for a couple decades and are far more reaching than it.

Most European countries have commonly deputized enforcement for all its forces, meaning a border patrol can check ID, road police can check for undeclared goods and so forth.

A simple example: several EU countries have laws on how much cash you might carry undeclared across borders, including EU borders. Other countries might officially challenge you to prove the legal origin of large amounts of cash that are not declared on tax forms or as otherwise required.

Alcohol and tobacco are subject to some special limits even for intra-EU transportation (exception to common market0 [source]. This can be checked by police, Schengen or non-Schengen in place.
Many people are surprised to see all these border controls right now, because they were not so used to for more than a decade. But, none must ignore the fact, that Schengen brought, in fact, more controls and "confusion" than ever before, such as police getting "extended rights" and making job of custom officials, or customs "POLICE" controls possible everywhere and without any grounds at all - I have, however, never seen that in Switzerland (police controlling borders). Yet, my deduction was correct: we lost civil individual rights in advantaging illegals and criminals .
This confusion and mess also, may be one of the reason there is such a lack of solidarity in protecting EU-Schengen borders, especially in face of such variable EU authorities = less responsibility for individual countries, and at the final nobody cares, just the taxpaying law-abiding citizens that wear the burden for all .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It was reported some years ago in the press that the tax police in Italy was using some ultra high tech scans to try to find money dirty mafia money being carried over through Swiss borders.
And why it should be exclusively mafia money? Does it had never occurred to you that it may be money hardly earned by ordinary citizens that had enough to pay tremendous taxes to ill-managed mafiosi ruled and infected government that threat them like as less than nothing?

Last edited by John Maynard; February 18th, 2016 at 04:42 PM.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 04:57 PM   #14257
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I think you guys are misunderstanding a key fact: Schengen is a protocol for unimpeded travel, for a surrender or customs authority, in or outside the territory of member states!
Schengen has nothing to do with customs, only with free movement of people. Custom union involves all and only EU countries, regardless if they are in EU or not, while Schengen includes some non-EU countries too.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 05:07 PM   #14258
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Schengen has nothing to do with customs, only with free movement of people. Custom union involves all and only EU countries, regardless if they are in EU or not, while Schengen includes some non-EU countries too.
sorry my sentence was wrong as I missed one word

should read as:
I think you guys are misunderstanding a key fact: Schengen is a protocol for unimpeded travel, not for a surrender or customs authority, in or outside the territory of member states!
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Old February 18th, 2016, 07:24 PM   #14259
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Prior to WWI, there was almost no border control in Europe (and in many other places in the world), you could virtually take a train from London to Delhi without even being checked (or little) .

The situation you describe, however, is very different from the situation we know today in Europe with the migrant crisis. These people that emigrated to the USA during the 19th century were in vast majority Europeans Christians that integrated pretty well (well, if you except Italians Mafiosi ), not Arabic Muslims, nor colored "culturally different" folks .
Imagine, today if America would have taken these people back then instead, it would be a very different world and country .
The British, Dutch and German Protestants who made up the bulk of the U.S. population in 1840 actually had - well, many of them had - considerable unease for religious reasons about the sudden influx of Catholics. Because there was animosity about Catholicism going back to the Reformation. Add to that that so many of these people were from southern and eastern Europe so they talked and dressed "funny"; they were poor; they were coming in in such large numbers...

These populations did assimilate and eventually get along, but it took a century or so. (John Kennedy's Catholicism was an issue in the 1960 Presidential campaign. My father, born in 1924, could remember help-wanted ads from the 40s reading "WASP only." Now, of course, that's illegal.) There were anti-Catholic riots in Philadelphia during the 1840s, and a nativist political party (officially called the American Party, commonly known as the Know-Nothings) in the 1850s. One historian I read said that for a brief time in the 1850s it looked like immigration might become a more important political issue than slavery. But for whatever reason, that didn't happen.

An American from 1840 who traveled forward in time to, say, the late 20th century, might feel that the immigrants had actually "won." The WASP America he was used to had melted into a larger, more cosmopolitan population with a lot of elements he would have considered alien.

As a Polish-American whose ancestors mostly came over around 1900, I'm not complaining about this, obviously. Just pointing out that it wasn't as easy as you seem to think.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 08:19 PM   #14260
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I never said it was easy . I would like to remind you that these issues about Catholics-Protestants you were talking about took place in Europe, and in a much greater degree of animosity, cruelty, and ended even in killings and wars...nothing comparable to "soft" inscription and statement "WASP only" that you had in America a long time ago.

In one side, that is very wholesome that a new group have to prove itself and integrate hardly and strongly to the local indigenous culture.
Quite the contrary of what we see in today's Europe: now, we have to accept everything quietly, muzzling our mouth in front of the most unacceptable behaviors, tolerate and put into life all the claims and extremism, accept and integrate foreign non Western values of non-European Muslims and other ethnic groups, with the results we all know...we ended integrating to the foreigners instead of them to us in our homelands .
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