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Old April 2nd, 2016, 11:04 AM   #14361
AsHalt
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I guess it's a "I get the meaning, so get on with it..." kind of translation
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 01:54 PM   #14362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Džiugas View Post
Wow, the Lithuanian language inscription has at least 4 spelling mistakes (most of them are just wrong diacritics except for Electroninis)

Doesn't the Polish road administration use Unicode during designing of traffic signs? They should at least check the spelling on Google Translate.

Electroninis mokesciŭ ęṁimas = Elektroninis mokesčių ėmimas
I don't wanna sound harsh, but although the Polish administration doesn't do that perfectly, at least they try - which we can't say about the Lithuanian side. I can't understand why in the world Lithuanians do nothing to promote their country in the languages of their neighbors, contrary to what Poland does.
The example at the border I showed in my post is perfect: on the Polish side they try to help Lithuanians understand. What about the LT side? They put a roadsign in Lithuanian and English only. No Polish. Same problem when you come to Lithuania from Latvia, for instance.
Another example (pic below) is the Berżniki/Kapčiamiestis former border checkpoint - why spending lots of money in a banner in English when for sure 90% of foreigners that cross over here are Poles from the villages around that don't speak English? Couldn't the Alytus county make such a banner in Polish instead of English?


Not even mentioning the promotion of the Lithuanian minority around Sejny (pic below), close to the LT border, which LT doesn't do so far with its Polish minority, plus Lithuanian commercial banners (even on the DK8 between Ostrów Mazowiecka and Wyszków you can see "kvečiame"!!!)


Lithuania has still got quite a lot to learn from Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia in terms of tourist-friendly approach ... [however, Poland and France could learn from Lithuania about simplifying administrative tasks when importing/reselling a car; France could learn about the sickness leave system from Lithuania; and both Poland and France could implement those green flashing traffic lights before they switch to red for instance]
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!

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Last edited by GROBIN; April 2nd, 2016 at 02:51 PM.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 06:39 PM   #14363
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Spain - Portugal Border (22/03/2016)

01.


02.


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Old April 3rd, 2016, 11:59 AM   #14364
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Going back to previous discussions, I found this :



Look at the West German visa - it mentions including "Land Berlin" - not Berlin (West). Yet according to the West Berlin constitution, it was clear that West Berlin was not a Land (state) of the FRG. Odd.
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 12:43 PM   #14365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Look at the West German visa - it mentions including "Land Berlin" - not Berlin (West). Yet according to the West Berlin constitution, it was clear that West Berlin was not a Land (state) of the FRG. Odd.
It was a "Land" according to the "Gundgesetz" (Basic Law) but the article was not applied by the Allies.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin#Land_Berlin

Quote:
Das heutige Berlin (Länderanhangscode BE) ist im strengen Sinne erst seit der Wiedervereinigung auch ein deutsches Land. Dieses umfasst exakt die Stadt Berlin. Zwar erklärte neben der Berliner Landesverfassung von 1950 auch das deutsche Grundgesetz das Land Berlin zum Gliedstaat der Bundesrepublik Deutschland, wegen der Vorbehalte der Alliierten war dies bis dahin jedoch völkerrechtlich unwirksam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Berlin#Legal_status

Quote:
On 4 August 1950 the House of Representatives (the city's legislature) passed a new constitution, declaring Berlin a state of the Federal Republic and the provisions of the Basic Law as binding law superior to Berlin state law (Article 1, clauses 2 and 3). However, this became statutory law only on 1 September and only with the inclusion of the western Allied provision that Art. 1, clauses 2 and 3, were not valid, or rather, deferred for the time being; the clauses became valid law on 3 October 1990 (the day of Germany's unification).
I googled your wording and found it in some laws from:

- 1952 (Gesetz über das Paßwesen --> Passport law)
- 1966 (Übernahme von Personen an der BeNeLux-Grenze --> Take over persons at the BeNeLux border)
- 1973 (Austrian trains in Germany)
- ...
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 06:51 PM   #14366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Look at the West German visa - it mentions including "Land Berlin" - not Berlin (West). Yet according to the West Berlin constitution, it was clear that West Berlin was not a Land (state) of the FRG. Odd.
East Berlin was not part of the GDR either, yet Commie government called it "Berlin, Hauptstadt der DDR".

Many Western embassies were clear about it, their embassies in East Berlin were called "... bei der DDR", not "... in der DDR".
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 07:35 PM   #14367
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The Federal Republic of Germany considered Berlin (as whole) as part of it. That was also approved by the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany:

„Das Grundgesetz gilt grundsätzlich auch in Berlin; Berlin ist trotz des Vorbehalts der Besatzungsmächte ein Land der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.“

Means: The Basic Law also applies basically in Berlin; Berlin is despite the reservation of the occupying powers a country of Germany.

There you found the things about the visa also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Berlin#Legal_status

Soviet Union was not amused
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 11:07 PM   #14368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Džiugas View Post
Wow, the Lithuanian language inscription has at least 4 spelling mistakes (most of them are just wrong diacritics except for Electroninis)

Doesn't the Polish road administration use Unicode during designing of traffic signs? They should at least check the spelling on Google Translate.

Electroninis mokesciŭ ęṁimas = Elektroninis mokesčių ėmimas
You know what is the difference between Czechs and Lithuanians? Czechs are 5× more numerous, yet they don't feel they are the belly of the world.

They'd be grateful.
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 11:18 PM   #14369
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Geez, he just pointed out spelling mistakes.
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Old April 4th, 2016, 01:35 AM   #14370
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Aha! Thank you everyone - I didn't know West Germany regarded Berlin as being part of the Federal Republic regardless of what the Allies thought. I knew about the West Berlin constitution accepting the occupation, but it's new information for me about the Federal Constitutional Court.

That makes perfect sense as to why it was included on the visa then.
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Old April 4th, 2016, 01:58 AM   #14371
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I'm curious what BRD basic law organisation said about the DDR "home" areas. I know BRD claimed soverignty on all of it (even 1937 borders until Kohl...)
were they split in the current Laender (Thuringen, Sachsen, etc) or did they take 1937-names or was it just a kind of blank space "area under Soviet occupation" ?
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Old April 4th, 2016, 03:04 AM   #14372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Geez, he just pointed out spelling mistakes.
I was thinking, how much would it cost Poland to hire a translator or editor to check the handful of Lithuanian road signs they need to put up?
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Old April 4th, 2016, 03:05 AM   #14373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I'm curious what BRD basic law organisation said about the DDR "home" areas. I know BRD claimed soverignty on all of it (even 1937 borders until Kohl...)
were they split in the current Laender (Thuringen, Sachsen, etc) or did they take 1937-names or was it just a kind of blank space "area under Soviet occupation" ?
Like the Territoire de Belfort, between 1871 and 1918, was officially something like "la partie subsistante du Haut-Rhin"?
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Old April 4th, 2016, 03:16 AM   #14374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I'm curious what BRD basic law organisation said about the DDR "home" areas. I know BRD claimed soverignty on all of it (even 1937 borders until Kohl...)
were they split in the current Laender (Thuringen, Sachsen, etc) or did they take 1937-names or was it just a kind of blank space "area under Soviet occupation" ?
It was not Kohl but Brandt in 1970 who recognized the Oder-Neiße as western border of Poland. However, because of the occupation state, this could only be made official with international law in 1990 under Kohl.

In the basic law there is no definition which states exist and which area they are covering. Since Germany is a Federation, it's written in the constitution of each state that it is a part of the Federal Republic of Germany.

In the basic law before the reunification, there was a part that the basic law is valid for Germany as whole but currently limited only to some states. That was among other thing also because the Federal Republic was founded after the states.

In General the DDR was recognized partly since 1972 (Grundlagenvertrag) but the border was normally not drawn as international border like the French border but only similar. The Bezirke were also marked. It was treated rather normal besides the border thing. I'm not sure about the time between 1949 to 1972 when the DDR was not recognized in any way, but it should be similar, maybe it was marked as SBZ (Sowjetische Besatzungszone = Soviet occupied area).

All basic systems like postal codes or licence plate numbers where made in the Federal Republic for whole Germany in the borders of 1937 or at least containing the DDR area. They used the administrative division of 1937 but without the old states like Prussia, just the underlying structure (like Landkreis Breslau). That all changed step by step with the politic change of Brandt and the contracts with the Eastern countries like Poland or Soviet Union.

See also https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostzon...fz-Kennzeichen
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Old April 4th, 2016, 01:33 PM   #14375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
It was not Kohl but Brandt in 1970 who recognized the Oder-Neiße as western border of Poland. However, because of the occupation state, this could only be made official with international law in 1990 under Kohl.
[...]

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostzon...fz-Kennzeichen
Gotta love the German creativity when it comes to warping the history. Any further excuses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickedy View Post

All basic systems like postal codes or licence plate numbers where made in the Federal Republic for whole Germany in the borders of 1937

No, they were made to include the areas that Nazis annexed in 1938 and 1939. So was the spirit in post-war Germany.

Are you aware that post-war Germany included Warthrland, the very historically Polish land where the kings are buried, into the licence plate system? The letter "P" that now stands for Potsdam was reserved for Poznań.

In line with the forum's title, the city was far from pre-WW2 border between Poland and Germany.
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Old April 4th, 2016, 03:00 PM   #14376
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Lithuanian-Belarusian border



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Old April 4th, 2016, 05:07 PM   #14377
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Is it here?
https://www.google.es/maps/@54.27497...7i13312!8i6656
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Old April 4th, 2016, 06:58 PM   #14378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
Gotta love the German creativity when it comes to warping the history. Any further excuses?
That is no excuse. Western Germany wasn't really independent before 1990. The four allies were the ones who have the sole right to make decisions for Germany as whole (in the borders of 1937). So the FRG couldn't give up the Eastern territories by international law. They however didn't claim it anymore after 1970.

And the Eastern territories were officially only put unter Polish and Russian administration. They were explicitly not annexed after Potsdam Konferenz in 1945. The reality however was different and the FRG accepted this in 1970.

Quote:
No, they were made to include the areas that Nazis annexed in 1938 and 1939. So was the spirit in post-war Germany.

Are you aware that post-war Germany included Warthrland, the very historically Polish land where the kings are buried, into the licence plate system? The letter "P" that now stands for Potsdam was reserved for Poznań.

In line with the forum's title, the city was far from pre-WW2 border between Poland and Germany.
Yes, in license plate system there were also territories which didn't belong to Germany in 1937. Why and who made this is not clear, it's a long time ago now. And in other systems (post codes, road numbering) that behavior was not repeated.
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Old April 4th, 2016, 07:43 PM   #14379
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Another Portugal/Spain border: Vilar Formoso (P) - Fuentes de Oñoro (E). It's one of the main border crossings between both countries, but there is a 3 km long stretch of non-motorway (N-620) on the Spanish side. The motorway is expected to be finished by 2017, 14 years after the motorway on the Portuguese side was finished



(Video should start at 1:04:34, otherwise click here: https://youtu.be/nFWPINEtGwY?t=3874)

In case you're wondering, the British and French flags were placed there, along with the Portuguese and Spanish ones, in the commemoration of the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Fuentes de Oñoro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle..._de_O%C3%B1oro
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Old April 4th, 2016, 08:09 PM   #14380
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A cycling race (maybe Giro d'Italia?) passing through the Italy-Trieste border (1947-54)



Sign says "Border with the Free Territory of Trieste. Documents and custom control".

I think it's on the SS55, as the other former border crossing, on SS14, is along the coast.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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