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Old October 30th, 2016, 02:30 PM   #14761
Attus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Why "transit"?
Between 1949-1989 there was a special agreement about traffic between West Germany and West Berlin through the GDR. There were some motorways designed for that traffic, for travellers was strictly forbidden to leave them. Border check was minimal. Stopping during the travel through the GDR in order to meet East German citizens was strictly forbidden as well.
That kind of traffic was called Transitverkehr (= transit traffic).
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Old October 30th, 2016, 03:49 PM   #14762
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Austrian police erected a building?, tent? at Hegyeshalom. Cars must drive through that. Border checks are now possible even in rainy wheather without policemen being wet.
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Old October 30th, 2016, 04:31 PM   #14763
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I guess Berlin... Since it's in the middle of the communist land...
However, you had to watch your wording when responding to East German border personnel. It wasn't simply "Berlin", but either "Westberlin", or "Berlin, Hauptstadt der DDR" ...
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Old October 30th, 2016, 09:20 PM   #14764
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Was there also a special (more relaxed) regime for transit to Poland and Czechoslovakia or not? (I'm asking because it also says "Transit VR Polen, ČSSR")
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Old October 31st, 2016, 04:30 PM   #14765
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Are they actually doing border check at Hegyeshalom? That's a bit odd...
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Old October 31st, 2016, 05:25 PM   #14766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Between 1949-1989 there was a special agreement about traffic between West Germany and West Berlin through the GDR. There were some motorways designed for that traffic, for travellers was strictly forbidden to leave them. Border check was minimal. Stopping during the travel through the GDR in order to meet East German citizens was strictly forbidden as well.
That kind of traffic was called Transitverkehr (= transit traffic).
Most the border connections were closed about in 1952 when DDR gradually begun to regulate travelling more strictly. Initially, there were three air corridors, three road corridors, two rail corridors and two river ones available. In addition, there were a few roads crossings for freight traffic only. Later on, the regulation was slightly relieved in 1970's.

There were some interesting rules to obey: For example, Lufthansa was banned from flying to West Berlin until the reunification took place. Instead, the flights between West Germany and West Berlin were served mainly by PanAm, BA and AF.

Another rule was for the foreignes: The return from East Berlin to West Berlin had to take place over the same checkpoint as the entry to East Berlin.

DDR made some one-to-one visa-exemption agreements with third countries. Finland was one of them. As the agreement was in effect in Jan 1, 1989, it did not live long. Anyway, I was in West Berlin in spring 1989 for business reasons. As I did not need a visa to enter DDR, I was allowed to leave the West in Friedrichstrasse and return at Checkpoint Charlie. In addition, I did not need to buy 20 Ostmarks for 20 D-Marks. A lady in front of me at passport check queue held a diplomatic passport. She tried to avoid that transaction, but without success. She looked quite upset when noticing me to cross to border with virtually no formalities.
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Old October 31st, 2016, 11:38 PM   #14767
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What other countries had visa exemptions to visit the DDR?
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Old November 1st, 2016, 12:55 PM   #14768
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I think most of the USSR close "allies" and old friends
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Old November 1st, 2016, 02:18 PM   #14769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Between 1949-1989 there was a special agreement about traffic between West Germany and West Berlin through the GDR. There were some motorways designed for that traffic, for travellers was strictly forbidden to leave them. Border check was minimal. Stopping during the travel through the GDR in order to meet East German citizens was strictly forbidden as well.
That kind of traffic was called Transitverkehr (= transit traffic).
Border checks weren't minimal, as full checks were still conducted. The difference was that a transit visa was granted at the border after their introduction in the late 1960's, and that the transit visa fees were paid for by the BRD after a certain date (I forget which it was, 1970-something?). You were timed between border crossings, and if you were too fast between them, you were fined. You could stop at designed rest areas, which had duty free shops/petrol stations/etc, with only hard currency accepted and they were staffed by Stasi workers. East Germans using these motorways couldn't stop at these service areas.

But border checks were still thorough on the DDR side, while the BRD conducted customs controls and (sometimes) identity controls. They definitely weren't minimal checks on the DDR side - the only thing was simplified customs controls.

While there were no physical barriers preventing you from leaving the transit autobahns, if you were caught doing so, you would be heavily fined. You were also exempt from the mandatory currency exchange.

About transit traffic to Czechoslovakia/Poland/etc - as far as I know, you were required to obtain a transit visa in advance, but you were exempt from the currency exchange rules. Where it got really strange was how Poland handled visas after the change of government there - Westerners were obliged to get one, but you could simply buy it from places along the transit route to Frankfurt (Oder) - it was simply a source of hard currency, nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "MattiG
There were some interesting rules to obey: For example, Lufthansa was banned from flying to West Berlin until the reunification took place. Instead, the flights between West Germany and West Berlin were served mainly by PanAm, BA and AF.
Yes, because Berlin was still under theoretical Four Power control under the Four Power Agreement, German airlines were banned from flying there. That's why Schoenfeld was developed outside of Berlin, as the DDR national airline Interflug could fly there freely. West Berliners would often use Schoenfeld for cheap package holidays after the normalisation of BRD-DDR relations in the 1970's.
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Old November 1st, 2016, 11:24 PM   #14770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Between 1949-1989 there was a special agreement about traffic between West Germany and West Berlin through the GDR. There were some motorways designed for that traffic, for travellers was strictly forbidden to leave them. Border check was minimal. Stopping during the travel through the GDR in order to meet East German citizens was strictly forbidden as well.
That kind of traffic was called Transitverkehr (= transit traffic).
Thx



Which was exactly motorway?. Which added exits does it have now?

(I guess full fuel tank was compulsory to be in transit)
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Old November 2nd, 2016, 12:51 AM   #14771
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This is Bielsa-Aragnouet tunnel from French side




Children from schools in both sides of the border had the chance to participate in awards about photo and painting.


This is winner photo





but for painting, as you can see, first category wasn't for elderly people at all!!!

http://www.aragonhoy.net/index.php/m...760#29-10-2016
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Old November 2nd, 2016, 09:02 PM   #14772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Thx

Which was exactly motorway?. Which added exits does it have now?

(I guess full fuel tank was compulsory to be in transit)
Here's the list : https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transi...C3.9Fenverkehr

And no, there was no such requirement. In fact, the DDR wanted people to stop at their facilities - as they could spy on foreigners and obtain badly needed hard currency. It's hard to tell how extensive the spying was, but certainly anyone working with the public in these transit rest areas would have been associated with the Stasi in some way. I have the feeling that these rest areas also sold duty free goods for hard currency, taking advantage of the fact that the West German/West Berlin customs didn't conduct detailed checks at the border on all travellers.

I've checked, and for transit to other destinations except West Berlin/West Germany, travellers had to pay for a transit visa at the border. I think the same deal applied for those on trains that went through the DDR to onwards destinations, like the train from Berlin Zoologischer Garten to Denmark and beyond.
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Old November 3rd, 2016, 09:51 PM   #14773
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Berlin city limits - a former place of DDR/West Berlin border:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMW9CdDj...y=roadsignspot
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Old November 7th, 2016, 12:10 AM   #14774
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Hungarian-Czechoslovak border between Esztergom and Štúrovo in 1969. The bridge over Danube, bombed during WWII, wasn't rebuilt until 2001.

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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old November 7th, 2016, 12:40 AM   #14775
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The bridge over Danube, bombed during WWII, wasn't rebuilt until 2001.[/IMG]
And this was not only due to economic reasons, but -at least to the same extent- also to the strained relations between the two countries, despite both being in the same bloc, therefore Socialist "brother states".
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Old November 7th, 2016, 11:36 AM   #14776
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And this was not only due to economic reasons, but -at least to the same extent- also to the strained relations between the two countries, despite both being in the same bloc, therefore Socialist "brother states".
Because of the Gabčíkovo–Nagymaros Dams issue?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 08:56 PM   #14777
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And this was not only due to economic reasons, but -at least to the same extent- also to the strained relations between the two countries, despite both being in the same bloc, therefore Socialist "brother states".
It's fascinating just how strained the relations were between "brothers" - Poland/East Germany had problems too, as did Hungary and Romania.

One interesting thing is that there was never any attempt to create a Schengen-style area between them - and in fact, there were plenty of physical barriers, including barbed wire fences between them.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 11:44 PM   #14778
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It's fascinating just how strained the relations were between "brothers" - Poland/East Germany had problems too, as did Hungary and Romania.

One interesting thing is that there was never any attempt to create a Schengen-style area between them - and in fact, there were plenty of physical barriers, including barbed wire fences between them.
Romania was something different inside of the communist block. Its regime tried to remain neutral in international matters, keeping distance from Moscow and establishing normal relations with the West (for example it opposed the 1968 Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia).
However, its regime was very brutal and totalitarian, maybe even worse than the Soviet one, especially in the last years when Ceausescu became psychotic and megalomaniac and Romanians started to starve.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old November 8th, 2016, 12:01 AM   #14779
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Romania was something different inside of the communist block. Its regime tried to remain neutral in international matters, keeping distance from Moscow and establishing normal relations with the West (for example it opposed the 1968 Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia).
Some historians argue that this was coordinated with Moscow so that Romania becomes Moscow's trojan horse in the West. Don't know if it's true.
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Old November 8th, 2016, 08:44 PM   #14780
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border French Suisse near Cern
<a href='https://postimg.org/image/f8qqtvmgd/' target='_blank'><img src='https://s22.postimg.org/f8qqtvmgd/P1010266.jpg' border='0' alt="P1010266"/></a><br/><br/>
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