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Old February 24th, 2017, 12:44 AM   #14981
italystf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvarner-1 View Post
I cross ex Rapallo border in Rijeka, Matulji, Kastav (Fiume, Mattuglie, Castua), since 10.02.1947 in Croatia, every day.
Better than Schengen! :-))))))
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 10:23 AM   #14982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvarner-1 View Post
I cross ex Rapallo border in Rijeka, Matulji, Kastav (Fiume, Mattuglie, Castua), since 10.02.1947 in Croatia, every day.
Better than Schengen! :-))))))
Actually, on that date it was in Yugoslavia (FNRJ). Croatia as a state exists since 25.06.1991.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 09:55 AM   #14983
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Yes, Yugoslavia and Republic of Croatia was its federal unit (at that time the name was the People's Republic of Croatia)
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Old February 25th, 2017, 10:15 AM   #14984
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Yes, that one :-)
There are still traces of the border, in the town, in Kastav woods and so on. The border poles, buildings used by the border police and customs...
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Old February 25th, 2017, 08:04 PM   #14985
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Photos taken last August - I was gonna upload them a long time ago, but now I finally managed to find time for it.

The former Lauterbourg-Neulauterburg border crossing at the French-German border.

Actually, the whole town (Lauterbourg) is in France. Just a few houses + a complex of supermarkets (Neulauterburg - "New Lauterbourg") are located in Germany.

Going from France, just before the border, the road crosses a small river. But, assuming that Google Maps is right, the actual crossing is some tens of meters (maybe 100 m) behind it.

The bridge from the French side:



On the bridge:



A look back at France:



It's actually between the river and the border (although I did not know that taking the photos):



Eurodistrict Pamina:



So, actually, the "euro"-sign is in the proper place - where it stands, Bundesrepublik Deutschland begins:



A look back again - this is France:



A close look at the beginning of Germany:



The French speed limits sign:



The former customs pavilion - now a restaurant:



And a museum (sorry for quality, the only way to take this photo was to the sun):



From what I understand - electric bike charger. And the rear side of a cigarettes vending machine:



So France begins behind this intersection, to the left:



The German speed limits sign is located not just at the border, but at the exit from the Neulauterburg town:

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Old February 25th, 2017, 09:17 PM   #14986
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In general, Openstreetmap is better if you need the exact location of the border.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 10:01 PM   #14987
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What happens technically if you do a crime in the "road gap" between two countries where the gap is between the two signposts saying which country youre entering. Under what criminal code are you subject to ? Lol.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 10:29 PM   #14988
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What happens technically if you do a crime in the "road gap" between two countries where the gap is between the two signposts saying which country youre entering. Under what criminal code are you subject to ? Lol.
The border is still there, despite one (or both) signposts being in the wrong place.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 11:00 PM   #14989
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What if you are exactly at the border, one foot on one side, the second foot on the other? Does it just depend on the police of which country catches you first?

Because in case of standard, normally operating border crossing (not Schengen internal borders or anything like this), which has double gates - for example, when you leave Poland to Ukraine, you first cross Polish gates, where Poles let you out, then Ukrainian gates where Ukrainians let you in - I understand that there is still a border somewhere in between (there is actually no no man's land) and the applied law depends on where you stand in the moment of committing the crime.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 01:24 PM   #14990
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Indeed there is no no man's land, the actual border line is somewhere, one cannot be "between" two countries, at least not on land.
I wonder though what happens if the crime is committed right on the border line, and investigation cannot determine which of the two countries it should be "assigned" to. How will it then be determined which jurisdiction should deal with it? Kind of a mutual agreement?
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Old February 26th, 2017, 03:53 PM   #14991
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Im pretty sure that its easier if its EU-EU countries. Im not so much into politics but I still thought it was worth mentioning. Obviously it is not rare since car chases can happen across different countries involving Police from different countries as well. A big mess yes.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 07:47 PM   #14992
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Originally Posted by tfd543 View Post
What happens technically if you do a crime in the "road gap" between two countries where the gap is between the two signposts saying which country youre entering. Under what criminal code are you subject to ? Lol.
I read once that in Baarle, technicians had to deliberate which country belonged the exact point to deliver to one or another police....
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Old February 26th, 2017, 08:30 PM   #14993
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And isn't it like that now?

It's an extreme example.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 08:34 PM   #14994
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I remember once Spanish police making alcohol controls for drivers just in the border Irun/Hendaye. They took line on the motorway, there was congestion and one driver was required to pass the control when only 70% of the car had passed that line (but driver had passed....)!!!!!!
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Old February 28th, 2017, 03:11 AM   #14995
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However, with the opening of the Fehmarn Belt tunnel there will be a road (a motorway, no less) on a no-mans land for several kilometres.

As far as I have understood, the tunnel will be operated by a company, which is 100 % owned by the Danish state; that leads one to assume that Danish legislation will be used on the international part of it.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 07:32 AM   #14996
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Quote:
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However, with the opening of the Fehmarn Belt tunnel there will be a road (a motorway, no less) on a no-mans land for several kilometres.
I do not believe there is no-mans land in the Fehmarn belt. The territorial waters extend 12 nautical miles from the shoreline. The width of the Fehmarn Belt is 10 NM. Thus the German and Danish jurisdictions meet at the midway.

At the Copehangen convention of 1857, the Danish straits were declared international and due-free waterways. This does not, however, make them no-mans-land.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 07:52 AM   #14997
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I refer to Openstreetmap, but I must admit that I don't really know, where do they get the data concerning the borders.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 09:07 AM   #14998
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Quote:
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I refer to Openstreetmap, but I must admit that I don't really know, where do they get the data concerning the borders.
The system is rather complex. This picture illustrates the maritime zones:



In narrow areas, the borders are subject to agreement by the neigbours. By default, the border is located at the midway.

The 'innocent' civil vessels can be navigated on territorial waters under certain conditions. They still are subject to the jurisdiction of the shoreline country up to 24 miles from the baseline.

The Copenhagen Convention is an extension to the basic rules: It entitles a free passage to the military vessels, too.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #14999
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Indeed but what about air borders ? Who owns the space above the land?
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Old February 28th, 2017, 12:07 PM   #15000
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The system is rather complex. This picture illustrates the maritime zones:

--

The Copenhagen Convention is an extension to the basic rules: It entitles a free passage to the military vessels, too.
Yes, and I assume that the outer limit of "A" in your picture is the border that Openstreetmap shows. Google maps, on the other hand, don't show maritime borders at all.

And indeed, these straits seem to be an exception.
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